D&D 5E Is 5e's Success Actually Bad for Other Games?

[Parmandur]

Which takes me to a third point:

What I enjoy about RPGing is the fiction. What makes different character different is the fiction. I don't understand the notion that characters need to rely on different mechanical subsystems to be different - ie that character differentiation is a property of the PC build and action resolution rules, rather than the fiction.

My experience of 4E was that most people I played with began seeing their character as a game piece with specific preprogrammed capabilities, rather than as a complex individual character.

 

[Manbearcat]

Which takes me to a third point:

What I enjoy about RPGing is the fiction. What makes different character different is the fiction. I don't understand the notion that characters need to rely on different mechanical subsystems to be different - ie that character differentiation is a property of the PC build and action resolution rules, rather than the fiction.

The fiction and the creative and cognitive expression when facing down (or framing if you're a GM) consequential decision-points and engaging with that ever-evolving gamestate (which is just the collection of those decision-points) and attendant fiction.

The only way formatting seems to be a turn-off to me is if it makes the actual playing of the game more difficult (eg it increases table handling time or cognitive workload because its obtuse, opaque, or dizzying to manage/inventory). The idea of a visceral response to formatting...I just don't understand it. I buy books so I can play the game...not to digest and viscerally (or not) respond to/engage with as a medium unto itself. I certainly don't understand how the formatting impacts that bold or that italicized above (again, unless its just obnoxiously increases table-handling time or cognitive workload).

 

[Parmandur]

My impression of 5e books - based on what I've seen extracted online - is that they are closer to late 4e style (eg the MM3 and MV) rather than Gygax.

The writing is better than Gygax, and a more accurate comparison from what I've read if older editions is probably 2E. However, I have gotten old 1E books, and have 3E books, that remain relevant for 5E in many ways.

Natural language is a big factor in making 5E useful: lack of overt jargon, and it easier for me to parse.

 

[PsyzhranV2]

As to D&D being the 800 pound Gorilla. Can you personally make a better burger than McDonald's?

Um, yes? How is this even a question? Don't know how things are where you live, but at least where I am, McDonald's is underfilling and overpriced. Every time I've ordered from there, I've walked away feeling unsatisified and thst I just wasted my money.

Just because a product or brand is popular doesn't mean it's the best in its category, or even good when compared to its competitors. It just means it either has really good brand management or that it got lucky and exploited a crucial opportunity to get to the top.

And now I'm mad that there's no Triple-O's or White Castle where I live. Just Wendy's, Burger King, Harvey's, and A&W as far as fast food burgers go. There is a Fatburger and a Five Guys, but those are right on the line between fast food and sit-down restaurant.

 

[loverdrive]

Now I just though of something I encounter very often.

People who have played only D&D are most of the time are just bad players, and all the wrong naughty word D&D has teached them now needs to be beaten out of their heads! Even the most basic concepts of roleplaying need to be explained, and I always have to be sure that newbies I meet don't get their minds broken by D&D.

I've yet to see a veteran D&D player who can at least pass the most basic litmus test. "Your character is chasing the bad guy with a revolver in her hand. What you, as a player, would want to achieve?"

The correct answer is, "to figure out a way for my character to lose her revolver, so she can engage the bad guy in a fist fight, or maybe, so he would be able to escape!".
The D&D player answer is, "to shoot the bad guy, what else?!"

 

[darjr]

I'm not sure about that period, but the earlier period in which D&D wasn't doing all that well, the late 90s, was one of the most fertile and creative times in the history of rpgs, with many games released then which are still around in some form to this day: Deadlands, Seventh Sea, Legend of the Five Rings all the White Wolf games etc.

@MerricB

I agree with you Don, but I wonder how much of that was because no one could make a D&D clone and not get sued into the dirt.

 

[Thomas Shey]

No, but there might be reasons people prefer rocky road ice cream to pistachio, beyond being benighted and basic corporate tools.

Apparently you're having a conversation with someone that isn't me, since I've never suggested any such thing.

 

[Fanaelialae]

Now I just though of something I encounter very often.

People who have played only D&D are most of the time are just bad players, and all the wrong naughty word D&D has teached them now needs to be beaten out of their heads! Even the most basic concepts of roleplaying need to be explained, and I always have to be sure that newbies I meet don't get their minds broken by D&D.

I've yet to see a veteran D&D player who can at least pass the most basic litmus test. "Your character is chasing the bad guy with a revolver in her hand. What you, as a player, would want to achieve?"

The correct answer is, "to figure out a way for my character to lose her revolver, so she can engage the bad guy in a fist fight, or maybe, so he would be able to escape!".
The D&D player answer is, "to shoot the bad guy, what else?!"

It's an RPG. If you ask me, there is no correct answer. That's the beauty of this medium (as opposed to a video game, where there usually is a correct answer). Choice is what makes a TTRPG unique in terms of gameplay.

That you don't think the player's choice is interesting enough doesn't make it the wrong choice. If your players only made the choices you would make, that wouldn't be much different from playing solo (and that is always an option).

 

[Parmandur]

Apparently you're having a conversation with someone that isn't me, since I've never suggested any such thing.

I'm addressing the OP, yes.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Anchovies are a fantastic cooking ingredient that adds a wonderful umami flavor to a number of dishes (e.g., Caesar salad dressing, Pasta Puttanesca, etc.).

Those are foul too. Umami is just an alternative spelling for vomit.