D&D General Is there an increase in "godless" campaign settings?

Thunder Brother

God Learner
Okay so here's the problem - that phrase doesn't apply to 99% of D&D gods.
How does it not? The presence of gods, demons, devils, aberrations, fey, etc. all reveal that there exists worlds and realities beyond the mundane and familiar. An invisible world previously unknown is glimpsed by the existence of these creatures.

To a simple fisherman, learning the existence of an aboleth, a powerful aberration from the deep past, would fundamentally shift their worldview.

Part of the problem here might be that we as outsiders approach this material with almost perfect understanding. The planes of the Great Wheel aren't weird to us, because we have convenient descriptions and statblocks to quantify it all.
 

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Bitbrain

Lost in Dark Sun
Reply to OP.

In my opinion, Ravnica and Eberron seem counterbalanced by Theros and Wildemount on this issue, so while there might be an increase in “godless” settings, the number of settings with gods is also increasing.

As for homebrew settings, well, in my own personal experience as a D&D player...

DMs who are atheists tend to build worlds where the existence of the gods is a clearly established fact. They tend to think about how religion works in their setting, and (if the world is polytheistic) how the organized worship and sacred rituals of one deity might be different from another.

DMs who are christians tend to build worlds where the existence of the gods is uncertain. They tend not to think much about how religion works in their setting. Heck, the current DM for our home game gave no thought whatsoever to the issue.
 

Thunder Brother

God Learner
Reply to OP.

In my opinion, Ravnica and Eberron seem counterbalanced by Theros and Wildemount on this issue, so while there might be an increase in “godless” settings, the number of settings with gods is also increasing.

As for homebrew settings, well, in my own personal experience as a D&D player...

DMs who are atheists tend to build worlds where the existence of the gods is a clearly established fact. They tend to think about how religion works in their setting, and (if the world is polytheistic) how the organized worship and sacred rituals of one deity might be different from another.

DMs who are christians tend to build worlds where the existence of the gods is uncertain. They tend not to think much about how religion works in their setting. Heck, the current DM for our home game gave no thought whatsoever to the issue.
I like this observation, as I definitely fall into the former. I wonder how applicable it is to others, though.
 

Yaarel

He Mage
How does it not? The presence of gods, demons, devils, aberrations, fey, etc. all reveal that there exists worlds and realities beyond the mundane and familiar. An invisible world previously unknown is glimpsed by the existence of these creatures.
The presence of any mage with a Plane Shift spell, or various prescience spells can reveal these "realities beyond" too.
 

Weiley31

Legend
OTOH, Theros.

Also, I'm not sure we can equate any powerful NPC with a DMPC, unless you have the gods adventuring with your party, which is something I've never heard of.
Odyssey of the Dragonlords IIRC actually has some of your NPC party members as being actual gods but for reasons can't really wish/nuke/god your problems away.
 


How does it not? The presence of gods, demons, devils, aberrations, fey, etc. all reveal that there exists worlds and realities beyond the mundane and familiar. An invisible world previously unknown is glimpsed by the existence of these creatures.

To a simple fisherman, learning the existence of an aboleth, a powerful aberration from the deep past, would fundamentally shift their worldview.
I feel like you're giving the impression that you're not really unfamiliar with actual D&D settings.

Can I ask: how long have you been playing D&D, and what settings have you played in?

Because in the FR, absolutely no, finding out about Aboleths is not going to "fundamentally shift the worldview" of a "simple fisherman" (also why are we centering things on "simple fishermen" in a setting which literacy is common, reading is common, education is relatively common, and so on?). They've likely seen dragons fly overhead, or at least manticores and wyverns. They've heard about countless monsters. They know about devils and demons and so on. They know about Drow. They're not a myth - they kidnapped their cousin and burned down his village. His wife's brother's uncle is a Tiefling. He talks to the Dragonborn who guards the gate to the town every morning.

Devils, demons, fey - these are not surprises to him. They are not mythology to him. They're very real things to be concerned about. Or utilized, or worked with. He knows they live in other dimensions, but that's not something he needs a god to "elevate his consciousness" about. It's just a fact. He doesn't want to go the Feywild. That adventurer who passed through town a few months back was from the Feywild and was a right handful and didn't make it sound like a whole lot of fun nor a very special place.

Even if the bloody Mists kidnapped him to Ravenloft, whilst he's probably never heard of it, he's likely to work out that he's been magically kidnapped and This Is Bad, and isn't going to have a new "worldview", because he's already familiar with the concept of people being kidnapped to other realms.

The same applies to Dragonlance.

The same applies to Greyhawk (for the most part - people are less educated but not quite the surprised simpletons you seem to want to centre).

Planescape, you literally are the extraplanar beings.

Spelljammer - see Planescape.

Birthright - Similar to FR/GH, maybe a little more peasant-y, but halflings, are from another dimension and can go there, so no-one is going to be surprised to hear other dimensions exist or have their minds blown by them.

Eberron - see Forgotten Realms.

Need I go on? What D&D setting are you thinking of where nobody knows jack and they need the gods and so on to "elevate their consciousness"? And can we stop trying to use "it would surprise literally the dumbest hick in the setting" as the bar here? Lantanese smokepowder would blow the mind of the dumbest hick in the FR.
 

Yaarel

He Mage
There is little or no difference between an epic player character, an archfey in the Feywild, or an immortal in an Astral Domain, except the plane.

Powerful beings.
 

Steampunkette

Rules Tinkerer and Freelance Writer
Supporter
So... for -my- setting?

The deities are gods. They're not "Powerful Outsiders" or "Uniquely strong entities that a high level character could beat up". They're gods. They were born into creation as deities and that is just how they exist. They, alone, can supply Mortals with access to Divine Magic and can take it away on a whim. They generally don't take it away, but they -could-.

Gods can die. Generally killed by the Five Fates, but a drastically weakened deity can be killed by other deities. But no mortal, no matter how epic level or festooned with artifacts or long they prepared can ever harm the gods because it's simply beyond mortal ken. Doesn't matter how "Weak" the god is, nothing from anywhere in the multiverse would work as a tool for mortals to kill a god.

Gods can be changed. 6 of the Iobaran deities were severely reduced when the Five Fates escaped the Wasteland, and now exist as concepts and feelings, not manifest entities. But they remain gods and no mortal could ever harm them, even if they forged a "GodKiller Sword" from the fingernails of a dead god or some such nonsense. Because even in its weakest state a deity is just so far beyond anything a mortal can deal with that it is impossible.

Divine Power is -palpable-. Being in the true presence of a god, rather than their avatar, would kill any mortal. Like full on radius of radiant death. You get too close you start to melt or burn or decay or unravel or otherwise come apart at the seams. Only the soul, the spirit, of a mortal can be near to a manifest deity. Some tiny -fragment- of that true and native power of a Deity can be felt in any heiligschein, priest, or paladin, and it cannot be hidden by any mortal means.

I've got rituals and identities and feelings that people get from the gods. I've got religious ceremonies and holidays and... yeah...

Thinking @Bitbrain -might- be right...
 

Thunder Brother

God Learner
Because in the FR, absolutely no, finding out about Aboleths is not going to "fundamentally shift the worldview" of a "simple fisherman" (also why are we centering things on "simple fishermen" in a setting which literacy is common, reading is common, education is relatively common, and so on?). They've likely seen dragons fly overhead, or at least manticores and wyverns. They've heard about countless monsters. They know about devils and demons and so on. They know about Drow. They're not a myth - they kidnapped their cousin and burned down his village. His wife's brother's uncle is a Tiefling. He talks to the Dragonborn who guards the gate to the town every morning.

Devils, demons, fey - these are not surprises to him. They are not mythology to him. They're very real things to be concerned about. Or utilized, or worked with. He knows they live in other dimensions, but that's not something he needs a god to "elevate his consciousness" about. It's just a fact. He doesn't want to go the Feywild. That adventurer who passed through town a few months back was from the Feywild and was a right handful and didn't make it sound like a whole lot of fun nor a very special place.

Even if the bloody Mists kidnapped him to Ravenloft, whilst he's probably never heard of it, he's likely to work out that he's been magically kidnapped and This Is Bad, and isn't going to have a new "worldview", because he's already familiar with the concept of people being kidnapped to other realms.

The same applies to Dragonlance.

The same applies to Greyhawk (for the most part - people are less educated but not quite the surprised simpletons you seem to want to centre).

Planescape, you literally are the extraplanar beings.

Spelljammer - see Planescape.

Birthright - Similar to FR/GH, maybe a little more peasant-y, but halflings, are from another dimension and can go there, so no-one is going to be surprised to hear other dimensions exist or have their minds blown by them.

Eberron - see Forgotten Realms.

Need I go on? What D&D setting are you thinking of where nobody knows jack and they need the gods and so on to "elevate their consciousness"? And can we stop trying to use "it would surprise literally the dumbest hick in the setting" as the bar here? Lantanese smokepowder would blow the mind of the dumbest hick in the FR.
I could respond to some of this, but I'm just going to go ahead and concede to whatever this argument has become. Nothing is going to be accomplished by continuing it.
 

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