D&D General Is there an increase in "godless" campaign settings?

[Azzy]

Gods. What are they good for?

Being used as excuses to be crappy to other people?

 

[Aldarc]

Gods. What are they good for?

Loot piñatas.

 

[cbwjm]

Pretty much this. D&D (and most RPG) religion is a weird mix of polytheistic pantheons with monotheistic trappings that make no sense at all. Alone the requirement to have one patron god despite there being multiple deities which everyone knows and acknowledges is silly. As you said, polytheistic faiths operate on a bargain system. You turn to the god you currently need and not worship one god because he is your patron even though you do not need his help or protection.
A good read on polytheistic faiths based on ancient Romans (with a special mention of D&D and how it gets it wrong): Collections: Practical Polytheism, Part I: Knowledge

That's how it works in the FR, you pray to the gods as needed. Just because you have a patron god doesn't mean you ignore the others. Maybe it doesn't say this in the 5e books, but it did in earlier editions when a book talked about faith in the realms.

 

[Jaeger]

That's how it works in the FR, you pray to the gods as needed. Just because you have a patron god doesn't mean you ignore the others. Maybe it doesn't say this in the 5e books, but it did in earlier editions when a book talked about faith in the realms.

Except not really.

Pg. 10 Cyclopedia of the realms - AD&D forgotten realms campaign guide (From the boxed set)
Religion of the Realms, 3rd paragraph:
"Individuals, particularly clerics, may not be tolerant of the beliefs of others. It is considered impolite to inquire too deeply into the details of worship of a god one does not worship or is not likely to worship."

There are also system issues with how clerics work that give PC's no real reason to venerate gods other than their own. And the way D&D cosmology is set up there is no reason at all for PC's to do anything but the bare minimum their god requires to get their cool powers or to keep from going into the celestial shredder...

 

[cbwjm]

Except not really.

Pg. 10 Cyclopedia of the realms - AD&D forgotten realms campaign guide (From the boxed set)
Religion of the Realms, 3rd paragraph:
"Individuals, particularly clerics, may not be tolerant of the beliefs of others. It is considered impolite to inquire too deeply into the details of worship of a god one does not worship or is not likely to worship."

There are also system issues with how clerics work that give PC's no real reason to venerate gods other than their own. And the way D&D cosmology is set up there is no reason at all for PC's to do anything but the bare minimum their god requires to get their cool powers or to keep from going into the celestial shredder...

Except really. Faiths and avatars pg 2-3. I'd copy/paste it, but I don't want to mess around with the formatting. Essentially it goes into how multiple gods are worshipped/appeased by the people of Faerun. Problem is, most people seem to ignore this and then assume that everyone in FR follows a single god.

Your quote doesn't even preclude this from being the case.

Just looked at the sword coast adventurer's guide for 5e which also points this out that this is the case so it is a concrete part of the current setting. I quoted this one since it's straight from DnDBeyond and so the formatting isn't horrendous.

The average person worships different gods in different contexts. Most vocations have a patron deity: farmers make offerings to Chauntea for the prosperity of their crops, clerks sharpen their quills with a prayer to Deneir, while pious merchants remember to set coins aside for Waukeen at the end of the day. Most people worship a deity associated with their livelihood, family, or home, while others feel called to a particular god for a variety of reasons. Individuals often carry or wear a small token of their favored deity: a pendant or a pin in the image of the god’s holy symbol, or some other personal keepsake.

In addition, people regularly venerate gods based on their needs and circumstances: a farmer whose favored deity is Chauntea would pray to Amaunator for a few clear, sunny days, and a Waterdhavian noble who habitually worships Deneir would give thanks to Sune after a successful coming-out party for her son. Even priests of particular gods acknowledge the roles that other deities play in the world and in their lives.

In general, worshipers view their relationships with the gods as practical and reciprocal: they pray and make offerings because that is how one invites the blessings of the gods and turns away their wrath. These prayers and other acts of devotion are generally performed quietly at the shrine in one’s household or community, or occasionally in a temple dedicated to one’s deity, when a worshiper feels the need to “come knocking upon a god’s door” to ask for attention.

Forms of worship are often acts of veneration: giving thanks for favor shown, making requests for future blessings, and offering praise for the deity’s intercessions, large and small. Because most folk in Faerûn don’t want to attract the ire of the cruel or savage gods, beseeching them to keep the peace is also an act of worship. A hunter or a farmer might make offerings to Malar in hopes of keeping predators at bay, and a sailor might pray to Umberlee that she withhold her wrath for the duration of a voyage.

 

[SehanineMoonbow]

Even though, as others pointed out earlier in this thread, there have long been settings that are godless (or at the very least, their existence is in question), but it does seem like there is more of a leaning these days to, if not entirely remove the gods, then push them further back. Gods have always been a tricky discussion in D&D forms, because it can be difficult sometimes to separate real world beliefs--or non-beliefs--from those in a fictional setting. For me personally, I'm not very religious, but, as I've mentioned before, I love deities in fantasy--animism also works, or worlds where there are both lesser entities (or spirits, such as of the elements), and and greater gods. I find they enrich the setting, especially in fantasy, where you are already suspending your disbelief and accepting that in this setting (be it TTRPG, a book or television series, or any other media), beings like dragons, elves, undead, magic, etc, exist. Why not have gods as well?

I can't say I'm a fan of the non-theist cleric option, as to me, being a cleric means getting your powers from a deity, unless you are specifically playing in a setting that doesn't have them (Dark Sun). I don't know if the move is an attempt to make it feel more inclusive to atheists, but it's a fictional setting, and we're fine with every other fantastical being.

 

[dragoner]

In ancient times, people's feelings towards the gods were much more ambivalent, like the mother goddess would come in the dead of night and slit you open, scoop out your guts and stuff you with straw if you were dishonorable. Other stories, practices, were called superstition, personification of forces of nature, or just a good tale to tell.

 

[Jaeger]

Essentially it goes into how multiple gods are worshipped/appeased by the people of Faerun. ...

Your quote doesn't even preclude this from being the case.

You can say that it doesn't preclude it.

But : "It is considered impolite to inquire too deeply into the details of worship of a god one does not worship or is not likely to worship."

Certainly throws a big contradictory monkey-wrench into the notion.

A bit of a red flag that the author had no clue how religious people actually act.

Problem is, most people seem to ignore this and then assume that everyone in FR follows a single god.

Because both the system and so-called "cosmology" give the PC's no reason to not just follow a single god.

Which is why D&D/FR pantheons/religions are so badly done.

People have overwhelmingly "ignored it" because they are bouncing off badly written nonsense that doesn't align with how things occur in play at the table, or how a real person would act if they actually lived under such a belief system.

How D&D says they want to portray religion in their setting fluff does not synch with how D&D handles the divine mechanically in the system.

So yeah, players and GM's are gonna ignore (subconsciously, instinctively, or otherwise), the stuff that doesn't make sense.

Garbage in, garbage out.

 

[Steampunkette]

A big part of D&D Pantheons is that they have different deities for every job or role in society. Every type of element, season, weather, geography. And typically have redundant versions that are specifically tied to individual races.

Yes. Thor is a god of storms. But the actual stuff he got up to in his various tales rarely had -anything- to do with a storm. Whether it was crossdressing to get married so he could get his hammer back, having a race against Thought, or wrestling Old Age.

Same thing with pretty much every pantheon.

But a lot of settings just go on down the Domain list (Formerly the Sphere list) and check off each box with it's own deity that presides over that aspect of life. Or a handful of related aspects.

Religions are stories and parables, myths and legends, humorous anecdotes and horror stories. They're not "And this was the God of Grain who helps farmers have a nice harvest" with nothing deeper than that. And the more gods you have (The more boxes you tick off) the more work you have to do to fill all those stories, so they become smaller, and smaller, 'til only a handful of gods actually do -anything- in the narrative and each of them only a teensy bit, here and there.

Very frustrating. Much better to make a smaller, tighter, pantheon which cover a wide range of things for Priestly spellcasting purposes and create a bigger narrative about them.

 

[cbwjm]

You can say that it doesn't preclude it.

But : "It is considered impolite to inquire too deeply into the details of worship of a god one does not worship or is not likely to worship."

Certainly throws a big contradictory monkey-wrench into the notion.

A bit of a red flag that the author had no clue how religious people actually act.




Because both the system and so-called "cosmology" give the PC's no reason to not just follow a single god.

Which is why D&D/FR pantheons/religions are so badly done.

People have overwhelmingly "ignored it" because they are bouncing off badly written nonsense that doesn't align with how things occur in play at the table, or how a real person would act if they actually lived under such a belief system.

How D&D says they want to portray religion in their setting fluff does not synch with how D&D handles the divine mechanically in the system.

So yeah, players and GM's are gonna ignore (subconsciously, instinctively, or otherwise), the stuff that doesn't make sense.

Garbage in, garbage out.

Sounds more like a player problem than a setting problem.