D&D 5E Spellcasters and Balance in 5e: A Poll

[Mind of tempest]

Not 5e Wise people you haven't

I get the complaint you are making but the complaint isn't about wisdom and perception really - it's about every stat and skill system ever made, because such edge cases are always going to be a problem no matter what way we group things together to categorize them. It's not a 5e problem it's more of an any game problem.

(*I hear the particular complaint you raised here the most from people that feel perception is one of the strongest skills in the game, but I don't believe it is. It's a skill I'd love for someone in the party to possess, but it's kind of redundant when everyone takes it.)


I think that kind of an issue is more related to DMing style than 5e itself. 'How does one allow every character to legitimately participate in the social game?'

There's lots of things to be done:

• Have NPC's take interest in non-face characters due to their personality/class abilities/etc.
• Don't allow players to call for social checks
• Don't call for many social checks
• Don't make failure of social checks lead to instant hostilities (or other very bad things)
• Etc.

Now all your players can feel free to interact with NPC's and they will shine there all the same. One doesn't need a +17 persuasion and to interact socially in meaningful ways.


That hasn't ever happened in our games. Sounds more like a player problem than a 5e problem. IMO.


I don't think I understand this point?

it was not in 5e that I met them.
edge case the 5e skill system is trash not because of playing past editions or training in-game design but because of a basic understanding of what seems a good idea.

DMs are as unreliable as players so unless you want to go out and teach them how to do their task the system has to be designed to make the worst of it impractical or teach a good way.

plus you have to factor in other players and honestly, the ability on the paper is what says you're for that task.

your assumption is to fix people, we have tried that off and on for over 4 thousand years a board game is not likely to fix it hence the logical conclusion of fixing the game instead.

you play with friends you know well as I do not have that luxuery?

 

[Crimson Longinus]

it was not in 5e that I met them.
edge case the 5e skill system is trash not because of playing past editions or training in-game design but because of a basic understanding of what seems a good idea.

If you think 5e skill system is trash, why are you playing it? If I though that I wouldn't. The skill system is fundamental game mechanic and it is not going to change.

 

[Vaalingrade]

If you think 5e skill system is trash, why are you playing it? If I though that I wouldn't. The skill system is fundamental game mechanic and it is not going to change.

You kind of have a pattern of low key telling people to get out of the game a lot recently.

Also, that fundamental mechanic has literally changed every edition. Even Pathfinder changed it.

 

[FrogReaver]

it was not in 5e that I met them.
edge case the 5e skill system is trash not because of playing past editions or training in-game design but because of a basic understanding of what seems a good idea.

DMs are as unreliable as players so unless you want to go out and teach them how to do their task the system has to be designed to make the worst of it impractical or teach a good way.

plus you have to factor in other players and honestly, the ability on the paper is what says you're for that task.

your assumption is to fix people, we have tried that off and on for over 4 thousand years a board game is not likely to fix it hence the logical conclusion of fixing the game instead.

you play with friends you know well as I do not have that luxuery?

The most perfect game system is going to play awful with bad people playing it. The people aspect can’t be gotten around.

What I am trying to tell you is that there are other ways to play the game that don’t have the problems you are finding, problems like a bard doing all the NPC interaction. That should be useful information to you. Why isn’t it?

 

[Crimson Longinus]

You kind of have a pattern of low key telling people to get out of the game a lot recently.

Nothing low key about it. People of course are perfectly free to spend their time how they want, but I simply cannot understand why people who seem to dislike the very core mechanics of the edition even bother with the game in the first place. Can someone explain that to me? There are countless of games which have core mechanics I do not like, but I don't go around posting on message boards dedicated to those games how bad the games are.

Also, that fundamental mechanic has literally changed every edition. Even Pathfinder changed it.

Sure. Each edition is practically a new game. But there is unlikely to be such a major overhaul in the near future.

 

[Mind of tempest]

The most perfect game system is going to play awful with bad people playing it. The people aspect can’t be gotten around.

What I am trying to tell you is that there are other ways to play the game that don’t have the problems you are finding, problems like a bard doing all the NPC interaction. That should be useful information to you. Why isn’t it?

yeah but that has no bearing on what game I get to play, you can say a good thing exists but I have no access to it so it is irrelevant to me plus Like be able to lever the things on my sheet to my advantage it feels right some how.

Nothing low key about it. People of course are perfectly free to spend their time how they want, but I simply cannot understand why people who seem to dislike the very core mechanics of the edition even bother with the game in the first place. Can someone explain that to me? There are countless of games which have core mechanics I do not like, but I don't go around posting on message boards dedicated to those games how bad the games are.


Sure. Each edition is practically a new game. But there is unlikely to be such a major overhaul in the near future.

look it is like pizza it is not the best but few truly hate it that is 5e plus if you want a game it is by far the easiest to get into both material and an active game and in some areas, it is the only game, so play it or have nothing.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Nothing low key about it. People of course are perfectly free to spend their time how they want, but I simply cannot understand why people who seem to dislike the very core mechanics of the edition even bother with the game in the first place. Can someone explain that to me? There are countless of games which have core mechanics I do not like, but I don't go around posting on message boards dedicated to those games how bad the games are.

6e will not be improved by everyone sitting around being non-critical of 5e's problems.

And frankly it took a really long time for people to feel comfortable pointing flaws out rather than engaging in the rose colored kumbaya of 5e's early years.

 

[Maxperson]

6e will not be improved by everyone sitting around being non-critical of 5e's problems.

And frankly it took a really long time for people to feel comfortable pointing flaws out rather than engaging in the rose colored kumbaya of 5e's early years.

You have a very different recollection than I do. I remember people being very critical right out of the 5e gate about things like the adventuring day encounter balance, bounded accuracy being too bounded, etc.

 

[Vaalingrade]

You have a very different recollection than I do. I remember people being very critical right out of the 5e gate about things like the adventuring day encounter balance, bounded accuracy being too bounded, etc.

I remember an outpouring of love over bounded accuracy, advantage and proficiency and no brooking of argument that these were all genius.

 

[FrogReaver]

You have a very different recollection than I do. I remember people being very critical right out of the 5e gate about things like the adventuring day encounter balance, bounded accuracy being too bounded, etc.

Yep. and if we want to talk adventure day balance I think 5e got that wrong, or at least used a misleading example in describing adventure day balance.

there’s things to be critical of 5e for. But I don’t think The caster/martial ‘issue’ is one. It has been primarily resolved. Both complaints from 3e and 4e were heard and fixed. The only complaints left are from people that want fundamentally mythic fighters - while slot don’t want that at all.

and while casters and martials aren’t perfectly balanced especially in higher tiers, through tier 2 it’s mostly close enough.