The problem with Evil races is not what you think

So the gist of it is....
Because in the past some humans were falsely accused of being savage and evil, we cannot now have savage and evil make believe races in a roleplaying game.
Thanks for this post. We were in danger of having a complex and nuanced discussion of race and otherness in fantasy and sci-fi world building, but you've brought it back to an overly simplistic caricature of an argument. Well done.


I'm not surprised that WoTC has gone the route they've gone. If I still played D&D, I don't and never played 5e, I would just tell my players to ignore all that stupid stuff and pretty much go with the implied world setting of prior years.
To the extent that anyone mentioned wotc, it's to point out how their materials, especially 5e, are replete with racial stereotypes drawn from recent history
It's too bad. I think WoTC is listening to their employees, west coast leftists, and think they represent most of America. This is honestly a non-problem. If in fact this is the next thing we need to do on the road to racial equality then no problem exists in America as it relates to racism.
There are more places in the world than just America

Personally I don't think that is true and we should focus on real issues and not get sidetracked into stuff like this.
So, I assume you do a lot of work in your local community supporting racial justice?
 

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To be fair, I did mention their article, Diversity and Dungeons & Dragons, upthread. It was an important announcement imo and caused a huge amount of debate on ENWorld at the time.
Right. I think they are possibly still a little behind the curve on a few things, and the way they slipped with 5e in general (back a few years now, but still) has maybe put them a little on their back foot. Still, clearly the desire is there and they've been saying pretty much the right things.

Really I don't envy them all that much. You have a very hidebound community of D&D fans who seem rather unhappy with a lot of changes which smack of modernized approaches to RPGs. And at the same time you have a heritage game who's material is practically seething with potential to offend practically anyone who isn't 'anglo' if they are in the mood to be offended. Its kind of a rock and a hard place, and I'd work some fire into that analogy if I could... lol.
 

Right. I think they are possibly still a little behind the curve on a few things, and the way they slipped with 5e in general (back a few years now, but still) has maybe put them a little on their back foot. Still, clearly the desire is there and they've been saying pretty much the right things.

Really I don't envy them all that much. You have a very hidebound community of D&D fans who seem rather unhappy with a lot of changes which smack of modernized approaches to RPGs. And at the same time you have a heritage game who's material is practically seething with potential to offend practically anyone who isn't 'anglo' if they are in the mood to be offended. Its kind of a rock and a hard place, and I'd work some fire into that analogy if I could... lol.
There was a little controversy recently because of the way they edited pocgamer's entry in Candlekeep mysteries. Aside from cutting crucial chunks of the adventure, making it (according to reviews) sort of unplayable, they described a group of Grippli as "primitive" where the author didn't use that term. From what I saw on Reddit and other places, in general the 5e community didn't think any of that was a big problem. But to me, it indicates that the company is involving poc creators but only in a limited and token way. And I want Kim Mohan (who edited that adventure) to explain, using his own words, why an author and some readers might not want him inserting that word in a description of a group of humanoid beings. I'm not sure he could.
 

Ixal

Hero
There was a little controversy recently because of the way they edited pocgamer's entry in Candlekeep mysteries. Aside from cutting crucial chunks of the adventure, making it (according to reviews) sort of unplayable, they described a group of Grippli as "primitive" where the author didn't use that term. From what I saw on Reddit and other places, in general the 5e community didn't think any of that was a big problem. But to me, it indicates that the company is involving poc creators but only in a limited and token way. And I want Kim Mohan (who edited that adventure) to explain, using his own words, why an author and some readers might not want him inserting that word in a description of a group of humanoid beings. I'm not sure he could.
So is 'primitive' a forbidden word now? Even though it only describes the level of technological development in relation to someone else?
And PoC creators are no guarantee for quality, so I am not sure what the cutting has to do with it.
 
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So is 'primitive' now a forbidden word? Even though it only describes the level of technological development in relation to someone else?
And PoC creators are no guarantee for quality, so I am not sure what the cutting has to do with it.
The idea of technological development, in which there are some more 'advanced' groups and some more 'backward' groups, with progress coming in a linear process, was a fundamental aspect of european colonialism and its ideology. It is what justified an imperialism that would conquer so as to "improve." In the scenario, the PCs have to protect a group of "primitive" Grippli, and so have a relation to them to mimics colonial relationships. (I'm surprised that this response is coming up in this thread, because you can find extensive, concrete examples of these kind of parallels between dnd game material and real world colonialism, as well as long discussions of how and why it matters, upthread).

Nothing is "forbidden." But the writer in question has an entire website considering the above dynamic, and so for an editor to introduce that element into his story without telling the creator is quite disrespectful (and the writer objected to its inclusion). Pertinent to the topic of this thread, the writer also included Yuan-ti of different moral persuasions, and this was largely cut and reduced to the adventure being another "kill the evil humanoid monsters."

The question of editing relates to wotc's corporate dynamics, so I can't speak to that. However, it seems that large portions of this adventure were cut without the author being made aware, even before he did press for them, and that other writers got more space for their adventures and were more clued-in to the process. As a writer and a person of color, this kind of experience resonated with me, even if it is just a result of wotc's sloppy editing process.
 

Ixal

Hero
The idea of technological development, in which there are some more 'advanced' groups and some more 'backward' groups, with progress coming in a linear process, was a fundamental aspect of european colonialism and its ideology. It is what justified an imperialism that would conquer so as to "improve." In the scenario, the PCs have to protect a group of "primitive" Grippli, and so have a relation to them to mimics colonial relationships. (I'm surprised that this response is coming up in this thread, because you can find extensive, concrete examples of these kind of parallels between dnd game material and real world colonialism, as well as long discussions of how and why it matters, upthread).

Nothing is "forbidden." But the writer in question has an entire website considering the above dynamic, and so for an editor to introduce that element into his story without telling the creator is quite disrespectful (and the writer objected to its inclusion). Pertinent to the topic of this thread, the writer also included Yuan-ti of different moral persuasions, and this was largely cut and reduced to the adventure being another "kill the evil humanoid monsters."

The question of editing relates to wotc's corporate dynamics, so I can't speak to that. However, it seems that large portions of this adventure were cut without the author being made aware, even before he did press for them, and that other writers got more space for their adventures and were more clued-in to the process. As a writer and a person of color, this kind of experience resonated with me, even if it is just a result of wotc's sloppy editing process.
Technological development might not be strictly linear, but many advances build up on each other, so it is quite valid to identify people who have not invented, discovered or are using many critical developments and thus their technological capabilities being rather low in comparison as primitive. That has nothing to do with colonial relations.
 
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So is 'primitive' a forbidden word now? Even though it only describes the level of technological development in relation to someone else?
And PoC creators are no guarantee for quality, so I am not sure what the cutting has to do with it.
Who decides what is 'primitive'? I mean, take some people who live by hunting and gathering. They have a toolkit, right? The technology which makes up that toolkit has been developed over a, literally, immeasurable length of time. Like, we cannot even say "technology started here." So is it more primitive than your average group of Americans living in Seattle? Most of our tech is maybe 100 years old, 200, 500, even the oldest of our technologies are what, 12,000 years old (going back to the first urban constructions). How can you call anything more primitive than something else? I mean, OK, maybe there are situations where you can, if some people are, say, refugees from a fallen civilization and they had to go reinvent stone axes from scratch. I don't think that's normally the case for any D&D cultures though.

There are DEFINITELY better words to be used than 'primitive', it is simply inaccurate, and communicates the, probably erroneous, idea that the PCs tools and things are going to automatically be superior to those of a group of beings which has probably existed in their home environment for centuries, millennia, or possibly even much longer than that.

OTOH there is no doubt that, say, 18th Century British had things like steel and guns that Native Americans lacked. However, I would note that the what those Native Americans made from that steel was versions of their own tools, which the English found to be quite handy (witness all the steel tomahawks they made)! Nor did Native Americans find firearms all that handy, except as a way to fight said English/Americans (or each other sometimes). So, it isn't clear that an objective evaluation would conclude that one group's tech was definitively superior to the others. When they came together, the result was some sort of fusion.

Finally, I think it is fair to say that often one group has a superiority in terms of the operational means available to it. So Native Americans were not making steel, certainly not guns whereas in principle the British could potentially make tomahawks. However, making a stone tomahawk was still not a skill that British people had, any more than Native Americans were able to smelt iron. Either one could learn the other's skills, but Britain had operational means to do things like mass produce goods. Is this 'higher technology'? I mean, its kind of hard to say, that technology, in its most modern form, seems to be destroying the Earth. Maybe we were the ones who needed to learn something? Pity we didn't.

The ultimate point is, these sorts of highly judgmental words and statements are very subjective, very context dependent, and generally close people's minds to ideas that they might actually want to let in. It seems like there might be better ways to phrase things.
 

Doug McCrae

Legend
CONTENT WARNING: VERY RACIST CLAIMS, IN QUOTATION

This post is about the way race determines morality in AD&D 1e (1977-1979) and D&D 5e (2014), and the correspondence with scientific racism.

Racial Determinism in D&D

In the AD&D 1e Dungeon Masters Guide (1979), morality seems to be determined by race. Subsequent publications, starting with Roger Moore's article Half-orcs in Dragon #62 (1982), repudiated this until D&D 5e brought back racial determinism, and made it more explicit than it had ever been before. However in 2020, WotC radically changed direction again.

AD&D 1e DMG:

Half-Orcs are boors. They are rude, crude, crass, and generally obnoxious. Because most are cowardly they tend to be bullies and cruel to the weak, but they will quickly knuckle under to the stronger. This does not mean that all half-orcs are horrid, only most of them... They will always seek to gain the upper hand and dominate those around them so as to be able to exercise their natural tendencies; half-orcs are greedy too. They can, of course, favor their human parent more than their orcish one.​

This passage suggests that boorishness, rudeness, bullying and so forth are orcish "natural tendencies". When a half-orc does not have these personality traits it is because it favours its human parent.

Roger Moore, writing in Dragon #62, offered an environmental explanation for orcish evil: "Orcs are like this because of the influence of their deities… and because of their own past. Sages have uncovered much evidence showing that orcs developed in regions generally hostile to life; survival was difficult." By "influence of their deities", Moore meant religious instruction — "This attitude is reinforced in their religious ceremonies."

In AD&D 1e Unearthed Arcana (1985), not only could PC drow and duergar be of any alignment, it was indicated that even for NPCs the listed alignment was only a tendency (emphasis mine):

Drow are generally evil and chaotic in nature, though player characters are not required to be so.​
While the majority of the members of this sub-race are of lawful evil alignment (with neutral tendencies), player characters who are gray dwarves may be of any alignment.​

The AD&D 2e Complete Book of Humanoids (1993) took a similar approach to Unearthed Arcana but expanded it to include a greater number of monstrous races.

More precision was provided by the D&D 3e Monster Manual (2000) with the introduction of the alignment modifying categories Always, Usually, and Often. But even a monster listed as, for example, Always Chaotic Evil, such as a demon, had the possibility of redemption: "It is possible for individuals to change alignment, but such individuals are either unique or one-in-a-million exceptions."

In D&D 5e the idea that alignment is unchangeable returned, and was made more explicit than it had been in AD&D 1e. D&D 5e Player's Handbook (2014):

The evil deities who created other races, though, made those races to serve them. Those races have strong inborn tendencies that match the nature of their gods. Most orcs share the violent, savage nature of the orc god, Gruumsh and are thus inclined toward evil. Even if an orc chooses a good alignment, it struggles against its innate tendencies for its entire life. (Even half-orcs feel the lingering pull of the orc god's influence.)​

D&D 5e Volo's Guide to Monsters (2016):

No matter how domesticated an orc might seem, its blood lust flows just beneath the surface. With its instinctive love of battle and its desire to prove its strength, an orc trying to live within the confines of civilization is faced with a difficult task.​

In 2020 WotC radically changed its position with the announcement, Diversity and Dungeons & Dragons: "Orcs and drow are just as morally and culturally complex as other peoples." In Candlekeep Mysteries (2021), monster alignments were removed altogether.

Scientific Racism

Francisco Bethencourt, Racisms (2013):

The 1840s and 1850s presented a turning point in which scientific research on the variety of human beings became much more assertive, ideologically aggressive, and politically engaged. I call this new development scientific racialism, as it presented a scientific effort to justify and reify divisions as well as hierarchies of races, supposed to be innate, immutable, and perpetual.​

Josiah C Nott, Types of Mankind (1854):

Whether an original diversity of races be admitted or not, the permanence of existing physical types will not be questioned by any Archaeologist or Naturalist of the present day. Nor, by such competent arbitrators, can the consequent permanence of moral and intellectual peculiarities of types be denied.​
History affords no evidence that education, or any influence of civilization that may be brought to bear on races of inferior organization, can radically change their physical, nor, consequently, their moral, characters.​

Lothrop Stoddard, The Rising Tide of Color (1920):

Each race-type, formed ages ago, and "set" by millenniums of isolation and inbreeding, is a stubbornly persistent entity. Each type possesses a special set of characters: not merely the physical characters visible to the naked eye, but moral, intellectual, and spiritual characters as well. All these characters are transmitted substantially unchanged from generation to generation.​

Robert Wald Sussman, The Myth of Race (2014):

Glayde Whitney (1939– 2002)… was a geneticist at Florida State University… He claimed that just as "Pit Bulls raised by Cocker Spaniels grow up to be Pit Bulls," so "blacks will be blacks." No matter what their environmental circumstances, he believed, they display "evidence of maladjustment." No attempt to improve the cognitive skills or morals of African Americans would succeed.​
 
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