D&D General My Problem(s) With Halflings, and How To Create Engaging/Interesting Fantasy Races

[bedir than]

why would we have the base stats for a player race not be the same as every other version of that life form?

Because you aren't playing a normie. You are playing a hero.

 

[Mind of tempest]

Because you aren't playing a normie. You are playing a hero.

all heroes start as a normie when born plus the hero bit is clearly the class, not the races why would it not be that way?

 

[JiffyPopTart]

that is in a social environment regulated partly by others, not the law of nature which reality runs on also halfling would have to stop being merry and just do nearly nothing to get it to work on that scale.

Not going to rehash old threads so let's just say our interpretation of daily life on a halfling farm is probably very different so we aren't going to be comparing apples to apples discussing our takes on it.

 

[Mind of tempest]

Not going to rehash old threads so let's just say our interpretation of daily life on a halfling farm is probably very different so we aren't going to be comparing apples to apples discussing our takes on it.

is halfling daily life noticeably affected by different forces of nature? no so logically what applies to them affects dnd humans just as much.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

is halfling daily life noticeably affected by different forces of nature? no so logically what applies to them affects dnd humans just as much.

Well…sorta.

It depends on if they’re both used to the local environment. By that, I mean that those new to the area might be ill equipped to face some of the local challenges,

 

[Yaarel]

High elves are supposed to be deeply and intrinsically magical. To prove this, they learn, using Int, a wizard cantrip. It’s not innate magic—that would be Charisma. They’re as deeply and intrinsically magical as any human who grew up in a magical academy-type setting.

Drow elves develop the Dancing Lights cantrip, and use Charisma for it.
High elves develop any Wizard cantrip, and use Intelligence for it.

The same mechanical wording is for both of these elven magical traits. The Players Handbook does not specify if this elven magic is innate or learned. It can be that the High Elf innately uses Intelligence for magic, or the Drow Elf learns to use Charisma for magic.

(Note, the lineages will no longer have ability score improvements, such as Drow Charisma, High Intelligence, and Wood Wisdom. I assume their innate magic will now use any mental ability, whether Charisma, Intelligence, or Wisdom: players choice.)

Because elves are magical and descend from fey ancestry, one can infer this elven magic trait is innate, or at least conveys an innate aptitude for magic. In any case, this is magic that the elves master while still growing up, even before they gain level 1 in their mage class. Elves as a people wield heavy magic, and it matters less whether the magic is nature or nurture. I assume there is an elven instinct for magic, but even if so, it is the elven culture that encourages each elf to learn to develop it, while young, and to continue to pursue greater magic as they mature.



Most humans are not innately magical, but some are. Some humans are gifted. If a player wants this human character concept, the Human picks a feat that grants magical traits. This feat can express magic manifesting while young, before gaining level 1 in a mage class.

The innate magic is identical for both human and elf, except in the case of a human only certain individuals express the magic trait, whereas in the case of the elf, every elf expresses this magic trait.

 

[Hussar]

They’ve been used by many, many, many gamers over the course of 40+ years, and have been well-used in several settings. So, no need to lose them.

@Faolyn (bold mine to make the differences between your claims stand out) ((Note, I do realize it's a REALLY fast moving thread, so, I totally understand why you might have missed this.))

/snip

Wasn't it you who dug up the lack of lore in the Realms on halflings and Yolanda? Wasn't it you who dug up just how little they are used in adventures in practice? Lip service has been paid to giving them advantages - but when it comes down to it neither TSR nor WotC have ever really cared about halflings, and especially not in the biggest setting around. Even gnomes have a much better deity in the Realms than halflings do. For that matter gnomes have an actual pantheon of eight deities in the Realms - and yes the halflings have six, but I don't believe the gnomes have ever had the indignity of having their deity demoted to an aspect of someone else - and left with a new chief deity almost entirely lacking in lore other than this event. And back in the greyhawk days the Gnomes had far more lore and detail than Halflings.

Or possibly it's time to give them an actual chance rather than simply saying they are there and that they are common, and stopping there the way the default setting for D&D does.

Short changed, overlooked, and ignored - and still trucking along despite getting mere lip service. It's probably time to actively let halflings have a swing at the bat rather than just send them out into the deep outfield and then complain when they don't hit home runs. The archetype is solid - but nothing's been done with them by TSR or WotC (Eberron being an honourable exception).

So, which is it? Short changed, overlooked and ignored, as @Neonchameleon claims or well used and present in several settings as you claim?

When you guys figure out which it is, you let me know.

 

[Hussar]

The races generally don’t. High elves are supposed to be deeply and intrinsically magical. To prove this, they learn, using Int, a wizard cantrip. It’s not innate magic—that would be Charisma. They’re as deeply and intrinsically magical as any human who grew up in a magical academy-type setting.

Heh, other than, y'know, near immortality, never needing to sleep, and, note, drow cast from charisma.

 

[Neonchameleon]

I also stated that I was perfectly fine with use them or lose them. I just figure that after 40 years of not really using them, losing them is a better option.

Which by my reckoning will start in 2061 at the earliest. We've had 40 years of using them a decent amount at tables.

But, you failed to answer the question. Who's right? You or @Neonchameleon? You can't both be right.

This is a false dichotomy based on not looking at what is actually being said.

Halflings have 100% of the lore they need for a race in the PHB. They are completely fine there. And there is so far as I can see no good argument for removing them from the PHB other than that they are not one of the cool kids and you want to take a hatchet to the PHB, removing at least a quarter and possibly a full third of the races depending on how half-orcs are doing this year.

They are also, so far as I can tell, seriously short-changed in both the lore of the Forgotten Realms and the lore of Greyhawk so far as I can tell. And they aren't even in Dragonlance at all that I recall (no, Kender aren't Halflings). If you are right about 5e adventures they are short-changed there (the only official 5e adventure I own is Curse of Strahd) - and even if you aren't right, assuming you were reading in good faith they are easy to overlook.

I've never been inspired by anything I've seen out of the Forgotten Realms and think I only own one Realms sourcebook (4e Neverwinter) - but this doesn't somehow change the fact that the Realms was the default setting for 2e, 3.X, and 5e and there is a ludicrous number of sourcebooks for the Realms. It also doesn't change the fact that Greyhawk was the dominant setting in the 3.0 PHB and the default setting back in 1e. And it doesn't change the fact that Dragonlance through at least the 80s and 90s and probably right up until 2004 with Eberron was at least the third and probably for most of the time the second biggest setting in D&D.

To give other examples of how they were short-changed, 2e had a complete book each of humans, elves, and dwarves - and a complete book of gnomes and halflings. The 3.5 racial guides also had the human fronted races of destiny, the elf fronted races of the wild, and the dwarf fronted races of stone - and the dragonborn fronted races of the dragon. Halflings were second in Races of the Wild, Gnomes in Races of Stone.

I do actually wonder whether there's a difference here and those of us who homebrew and work from the PHB outwards think halflings are fine - because they are there. But people who regularly use the big published settings see the lack of care paid to them.

It also casts light on your attempt to remove halflings from the PHB (where they are fine) to the DMG being your attempt to remove the parts that are actually working.

When you fine folks figure it out, let's talk. Until then, what can I do? I can't really argue a point when you guys are making exact opposite points and claiming both are true.

What you can do is start looking at nuances and stop with the motivated reasoning. We aren't a hivemind.

Wait... what? I've REPEATEDLY stated that I have zero problems ejecting any race that is underperforming. How explicit do I need to be?

But you have done nothing to respond to points about the knock-on effect of removing the lowest performing race and the impact that will have on halflings. You've done nothing to respond to the point that if you break things down by subrace and apply your crude filter we kick out dwarves.

And you can start responding to the point that neither Tieflings nor Dragonborn came out of nowhere. It seems that you ignore all the points that go against you unless you can find something to nitpick in an attempt to say other people aren't a hivemind.

Now I wouldn't mind this so much if it were a tacit admission that your "points" simply didn't hold water. But you then repeat those debunked points.

 

[Hussar]

@Neonchameleon - I have to admit, I tend to agree with what you are saying. If they are going to keep halflings in the game, then actually use them. Unfortunately, I don't think they will. They'll keep halflings in the core, because, well, as this thread has shown, any modifications to halflings is treading some very, very dangerous territory. There's been a lot of pretty negative reactions to some of the proposed changes and I think that the traditionalists in the hobby will lose their collective minds if we stray too far afield.

It will be interesting to see what happens after the new dragon book comes out. I'll bet, as a thought, they'll spend a fair bit of time on dragonborn but also on kobolds. As it stands right now, the only real competition for halflings is gnomes - they're the only 2 small races in the PHB. And, "the small race" is a definite niche. But, if kobolds get a bunch of loving in the new Dragon book and if they become free to play on D&D Beyond, my prediction is that by this time next year, halflings will be pretty much gone. A short race with ties to dragons? Yeah, that's going to absolutely crush gnomes and halflings.

Will be interesting to see.