D&D General Elves, Dwarves, Gnomes and Halflings of Color

[Ruin Explorer]

Darksun alchemists

Elementalists? Or did I miss something big in 4E Dark Sun?

The word "gods" is wrong. And unhelpful. And heavyhanded to the point of oppressive toward reallife players who are uncomfortable around that term, for various reasons.

I think they should have said "Gods, powerful spirits, or forces" myself, and left it up to the DM to decide which was which, but I don't really buy it's as "oppressive" as you're suggesting. You're certainly not going to have much fun with fantasy RPGs generally if you're "uncomfortable" with the very concept of gods, and it would not be appropriate to eliminate that concept (not even in some leftist sense, because eliminating it causes harm too). In English, anyway. There may be a translation where a more offensive and specific word was picked.

The biggest problem with the 5E Cleric design is it doesn't include an "I'm just the Cleric" option, you have to pick a specific god-package. Previous editions allowed for that - and unlike @Oofta I have seen people take it (including me).

 

[Yaarel]

Elementalists? Or did I miss something big in 4E Dark Sun?

I think they should have said "Gods, powerful spirits, or forces" myself, and left it up to the DM to decide which was which, but I don't really buy it's as "oppressive" as you're suggesting. You're certainly not going to have much fun with fantasy RPGs generally if you're "uncomfortable" with the very concept of gods, and it would not be appropriate to eliminate that concept (not even in some leftist sense, because eliminating it causes harm too). In English, anyway. There may be a translation where a more offensive and specific word was picked.

The biggest problem with the 5E Cleric design is it doesn't include an "I'm just the Cleric" option, you have to pick a specific god-package. Previous editions allowed for that - and unlike @Oofta I have seen people take it (including me).

I think the Cleric class should focus on a "cosmic force" and think about why this force is an aspect of a sacred community. Also think about how the cosmos depends on this force.

Then, the class can suggest examples of a force, such as an animistic community, an aspect of human spirit, a primordeal physical element, like fire, water, or light, a polytheistic community with a pantheon, a (gameplayable) monotheistic community, an idealistic community of a secular philosophy, or so on.

In an animistic shamanic culture, it is the community that is sacred. Both humans and features of nature are members of this community. The main job of a shaman is to help resolve any conflicts between the members of this community.

In America, money tends to be "sacred", in the sense of the US being quite diverse and tolerant, except when it comes to how money informs every aspect of human life. Capitalism and Socialism could be examples of cosmic forces. Albeit, their medieval analogues might be guilds and communes.

For D&D elves, magic is a "cosmic force".

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I think the Cleric class should focus on a "cosmic force" and think about why this force is an aspect of sacred community. Also think about how the cosmos depends on this force.

Then, the class can suggest examples of a force, such as an animistic community, an aspect of human spirit, a primordeal physical element, like fire, water, or light, a polytheistic community with a pantheon, a (gameplayable) monotheistic community, an idealistic community of a secular philosophy, or so on.

In America, money tends to be "sacred", in the sense of the US being quite diverse and tolerant, except when it comes to how money informs every aspect of human life. Capitalism and Socialism could be examples of cosmic forces. Albeit, their medieval analogues might be guilds and communes.

Okay, but that's way too complicated for the D&D PHB mate. We have a lot of people playing (including adults) whose reading age is not high enough to comprehend what you're saying here. A lot of people just want to "pick and go". What you're describing, where the term "god" isn't even used, is viable in some indie-ish RPG, but not D&D.

Conceptually if you could dumb it down a bit and acknowledge gods (yes, using the word) as one of the examples of these, then I think we'd have something. Terry Pratchett could do it for us I bet, were he still around.

It's still weird that there's no "generic" Cleric to me though. That's one of the few place 5E abandons previous editions.

 

[Yaarel]

Okay, but that's way too complicated for the D&D PHB mate. We have a lot of people playing (including adults) whose reading age is not high enough to comprehend what you're saying here. A lot of people just want to "pick and go". What you're describing, where the term "god" isn't even used, is viable in some indie-ish RPG, but not D&D.

The word "cosmic force" is simple.

Pick a domain.

Done.

Conceptually if you could dumb it down a bit and acknowledge gods (yes, using the word) as one of the examples of these, then I think we'd have something.

Yeah.

It's still weird that there's no "generic" Cleric to me though. That's one of the few place 5E abandons previous editions.

Yeah. And "cosmic force" allows for the "generic" Cleric for players who want this, including tables that want leave inworld religion "off screen".

 

[Ruin Explorer]

The word "cosmic force" is simple.

It's translating the words into the concept, especially the concept as you understand it that awful lot of people will find challenging, but you do you.

 

[Yaarel]

It's translating the words into the concept, especially the concept as you understand it that awful lot of people will find challenging, but you do you.

Xanathars fits the "cosmic force" into a few sentences. Easy.


By the way, every Cleric domain so far is suitable as a "cosmic force". This is especially convenient for the "generic" Cleric.

 

[Yaarel]

It's translating the words into the concept, especially the concept as you understand it that awful lot of people will find challenging, but you do you.

I am happy with Xanathars, am glad it is official, and feel it needs to be core.

Also, the term "cosmic force" is excellent. It genuinely covers very many viable Cleric class concepts. I feel this term should be what the class is about, and things like gods be subsets of it.

Just this Xanathars approach is perfect.



I went into extra detail for the sake of players who want to think about roleplaying their character concept, and of DMs who are creating a setting. A DM would often populate a setting with sacred communities, and this can help inform what a sacred community might be about.

 

[Yaarel]

On the central thread topic.

I am happy with the art direction for the elves in Tashas.

I was surprised and enjoyed the presentation of a High Elf with a Drow Elf. The High Elf was dark blue, and the Drow Elf was very pale silver. It took me a moment to realize which was which, mainly from the white hair color of the Drow. When I went thru some of the lore of earlier editions, it turned out that both of these complexions were officially possible according to the lore.

It depends on the player race concept. Some concepts should model human skin tones, namely shades of orange. But other concepts should get their coloring for other reasons than humans.

I feel every race that resembles a human should have shades from light to dark.

When I saw that a "white" Drow could exist as silver, and a "brown", or potentially "black", High Elf could be blue, it felt oddly liberating. A relief.

 

[Oofta]

For better or worse they decided to keep it the default assumption of a pantheon of gods in the PHB. On the other hand the PHB explicitly tells you to ask your DM about gods and religion which has the more in depth discussion.

The first chapter in the DMG has a section on "Gods of Your World" which includes sections on animism and forces and philosophies.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

Weird. Do you have Twitter?

No. It also doesn't work on my network. A summary would be welcome.