OSR Rules Lite: How lite is too lite?

[Malmuria]

For the past year, in my attempt to get away from what I consider a rules-medium game (5e), I've been really interested in very stripped-down, ultra rules light games (Knave, Maze Rats, Black Hack, Mork Borg which I've run, and then also Into the Odd and Cairn which I have not run). I've run some really great dungeon-crawling one shots, and have thought that if I ever run a longer hexcrawl campaign I would use one of those systems and focus more on interesting items than built-in character abilities.

But I'm also coming to realize that players (myself included) not only enjoy some built-in abilities, but that character classes and abilities help create a character that is both grounded in the setting and thematically interesting. So here I've become interested in games that are or seem a little more built-out: OSE, white hack, worlds without number, or, inevitably, house-ruled 5e.*

I'm curious if people have experience running long-ish osr games (say, 15+ sessions), what has been your experience re: ultralight, mostly classless games (like Knave) and games with a little more heft (white hack or ose)? Do you have to add in a bunch of stuff to the ultralight games in order to make them work for your setting (and is their hackability along those lines a pro or a con?).

Thanks in advance!

* (at which point I wonder, what is even the point, if all roads lead back to 5e...)

 

[jmartkdr2]

I've been in a long game of Fate, and frankly compared to 5e Basic DnD is pretty rules-light. The thing you need to replace that the rules don't give you in these systems is defining the genre.

Basically, as you remove definition form the game mechanics, you need to define the limits of what "makes sense" from some other place. A clearly and narrowly defined genre/setting can do this even without explicit rules, or you can imply it via rules and worldbuilding if you're both very thorough and stay within a narrow concept.

This is why I prefer Fate for emulating existing fictional settings - the rules don't get in the way, and the setting being understood does what the rules don't.

 

[Ancalagon]

I've run fairly long campaigns in the GLOG and Troika! (10-15 sessions range, the GLOG is ongoing). (edit: perhaps medium length would be a better term here)

Troika! is very zanny, both in setting and in rules, but the zannyness can be fixed by using a more conventional initiative system, and giving everyone 5 or even 6 skills - 4 skills is miserable. What I do is have mental and physical skills one at 5, one at 6.

What the GLOG doesn't have is a functional skill system. What Troika! doesn't have is levels. Both have very different but solid magical systems that make the "mages" really feel magical without being "magical swiss army polearms" . They both have a rather generous (but not unlimited!) natural healing system that make parties without a healer viable.

In both game, not fighting is often a smart move.

 

[Lanefan]

What the GLOG doesn't have is a functional skill system.

This might not be a bad thing, in that IME the presence of a skill system adds a lot of rules overhead and bookkeeping (example comparison: 3e D&D vs 1e or Basic).

A simple generic mechanic (e.g. roll-under stat, with the roll modified by the GM to suit each situation) is much rules-lighter and can, most of the time, do the same work.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

Yeah, I tend to run Beyond the Wall, but it seems hard to do long terms campaign with it. Long adventure that keeps the player in adventuring mode for a long time without time for much downtime recovery is pretty hard for OSR games. I think its a matter of pacing more than player options, IMHO.

I think a stripped-down 5e might be just the sweet spot I'm looking for. The only thing I'm not sure is the skill system of 5e: I dont know what to do with it.

 

[Marc_C]

Barbarians of Lumeria has just the right amount of definition for me. Detailed characters by the clever use of stacking professions, cultural differences and city of origine boons.

Can you do a 15 session campaign with it? I don't know. We just do one-shots with it.

 

[Ancalagon]

This might not be a bad thing, in that IME the presence of a skill system adds a lot of rules overhead and bookkeeping (example comparison: 3e D&D vs 1e or Basic).

A simple generic mechanic (e.g. roll-under stat, with the roll modified by the GM to suit each situation) is much rules-lighter and can, most of the time, do the same work.

It depends on the players. I find some really want a skill system, which "kills" the glog as an option for some (although it would be very easy to tack one on).

 

[Ath-kethin]

I ran a Basic Fantasy game for a while, but it was so streamlined we ended up inverting to Rules Cyclopedia D&D after a few months.

I ran a 3-ish year long campaign in 2nd Edition AD&D, but I don't know if that counts as "rules light"-er than 5e, really.

 

[Yora]

I've been pondering this a lot over the past weeks, and I think it's that getting new toys every level is something that creates a sense of accomplishment and progress. It functions both as lure and a reward to encourage players to keep playing and have something to look forward to that they can see getting closer.
When this element of the game disappears and all you get from new levels is increased passive numbers, then you need something else to take its place as an incentive that goes beyond finishing the one thing the players are currently working on.

For a campaign that focuses on shorter delves into smaller ruins in a larger environment, I think each dungeon should make the players feel that they discovered more pieces to help creating the greater picture, but also that they are still missing many more pieces that will make things even clearer, that are still to be found somewhere out there. This is a campaign and adventure element that exists completely separate from the mechanical parts.

 

[Ancalagon]

I ran a Basic Fantasy game for a while, but it was so streamlined we ended up inverting to Rules Cyclopedia D&D after a few months.

I ran a 3-ish year long campaign in 2nd Edition AD&D, but I don't know if that counts as "rules light"-er than 5e, really.

I would say they are roughly the same.

5e has all sorts of powers and subclasses and bonus actions and whatnots. 2e had weapons speed, dual classing, kits, magic resistance and really particular skill resolutions and old-school saving throws.

The reason why 5e is not more complicated is the more "unified/solid" frame of the game, the d20 mechanism that started in 3e.