D&D General Why Exploration Is the Worst Pillar

[TheSword]

Whoa, whoa, whoa - we just spent the past twenty pages being told that casters absolutely DON'T have any exploration abilities. That choosing these abilities are huge investments and no characters would EVER use them. I mean, didn't you argue against using unseen servant just a page or so back.

And, I really didn't understand it then. Unseen servant pushes down with 30 pounds of force every round, every 5 feet. This catches most traps in a corridor. That means I'm moving 5 feet every round, or 50 feet per minute. That's 500 feet per AD&D turn, or just a bit faster than FOUR TIMES the expected indoor travel speed in AD&D. And you're complaining that this is too slow? How fast do you think the party moves in a dungeon?

Actually the spell can interact with an object once per round. You can claim that every 5 ft square is an object - I wouldn’t allow that but that’s up to your DM. Perhaps you could claim that each individual flagstone is a object, I’m not so sure. My feeling is that the spell is clearly designed for completing household chores not searching dungeons. I would be leery of expanding a rituals use to something clearly beyond the examples described in the spell.

 

[iserith]

Rangers have lots of abilities linked to their terrain and favored enemies. I doubt but that they skip exploration. Being better able to track your foe doesn’t skip content, being able to move better in favored terrain or have enhanced skills doesn’t skip content it just frees you up in comparison to the rest of the party. Sure they can ignore getting lost and rations but if that’s only a tiny sliver of one tiny slice of exploration.

Right, and not getting lost is only if they are navigating (since the rules for navigating, a travel activity, determine whether the party gets lost) and only in their favored terrain of which they get only 3 across their entire lifespan.

If they are navigating in favored terrain, then they can also keep watch for dangers (unlike any other class that is navigating), but they can't do any other activity while traveling which includes foraging.

If they can't forage, then they gain no benefit from the foraging feature of Natural Explorer. Someone else is going to have to forage. And when they do, they can't also keep watch for danger!

So the ranger's player needs to decide which task is most important at the time. If it's a clear day on the plains and they can see the sun and are moving at a slow pace as a party, that's a DC 5 Wisdom (Survival) check with a +5 bonus and advantage. Maybe in this case someone else can navigate while the ranger forages or tracks. But when the weather gods make it rain in the jungle and the party is moving at a fast pace to get to the temple of the yuan-ti before they sacrifice the prince to Dendar, everyone's grateful they have a ranger with the forest favored terrain!

 

[TheSword]

I'm not so sure you can cast a spell through a window (unless that window is open). You are clearly very permissible in your interpretation of rules and spells. You said that an unseen servant was a creature, for example. The more handwavy you are, the easier your challenges become. That's on you, not the rules. (And it's fine if that's what you prefer.)
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Absolutely. The inside of the room has total cover from anything outside. In addition you probably can’t see the other side of the door you are trying to unbolt.

Unseen servant is a shapeless mindless force, not an intelligent creature. You cant ask it improvise.

 

[Yora]

What are the claims you are making? How are they specifically skipping things?

Natural Explorer:

• Difficult terrain doesn't slow your group's travel.
• Your group can't become lost except by magical means.

As printed in the PHB, it only applies to favored terrain, but in many types of campaigns with a specific theme even a single favored terrain could cover 90% of all cases. The revised ranger gets these benefits, and more, in any terrain.
A ranger is not good at navigating and finding the best path. A ranger requires the need to do any navigating.

 

[iserith]

Natural Explorer:

• Difficult terrain doesn't slow your group's travel.
• Your group can't become lost except by magical means.

As printed in the PHB, it only applies to favored terrain, but in many types of campaigns with a specific theme even a single favored terrain could cover 90% of all cases. The revised ranger gets these benefits, and more, in any terrain.
A ranger is not good at navigating and finding the best path. A ranger requires the need to do any navigating.

See my post above.

And if the DM makes most of their terrain forest (or whatever), that's on the DM, not the rules. They set the stage for the group never becoming lost and moving quickly through the forest. But again, only if the ranger is navigating will they not become lost.

 

[TheSword]

Natural Explorer:

• Difficult terrain doesn't slow your group's travel.
• Your group can't become lost except by magical means.

As printed in the PHB, it only applies to favored terrain, but in many types of campaigns with a specific theme even a single favored terrain could cover 90% of all cases. The revised ranger gets these benefits, and more, in any terrain.
A ranger is not good at navigating and finding the best path. A ranger requires the need to do any navigating.

It’s not skipping the travel, it’s just making it easier.

It’s not stopping the need to navigate, it’s meaning the ranger can’t get lost. They still need to work out where they are going and how to get there.

 

[iserith]

It’s not skipping the travel, it’s just making it easier.

It’s not stopping the need to navigate, it’s meaning the ranger can’t get lost. They still need to work out where they are going and how to get there.

Yeah, it's the same with that popular Outlander background. You can find food and water for yourself and 5 people, if it exists. Great! You still have to forage which means you aren't keeping watch for danger while traveling. You just auto-succeed on the task, no roll. Pretty good till the bulette gets automatic surprise on you!

Nothing's free. It's all trade-offs.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Yeah, it's the same with that popular Outlander background. You can find food and water for yourself and 5 people, if it exists. Great! You still have to forage which means you aren't keeping watch for danger while traveling. You just auto-succeed on the task, no roll. Pretty good till the bulette gets automatic surprise on you!

Nothing's free. It's all trade-offs.

And people wonder why I view random encounters as punishments.

"You found a way around counting rations, which you find tedious? Have a landshark getting a free shot at ripping out your intestines."

 

[Swarmkeeper]

And people wonder why I view random encounters as punishments.

"You found a way around counting rations, which you find tedious? Have a landshark getting a free shot at ripping out your intestines."

Or, just perhaps, the landshark was going to be there whether there was a Ranger in the party or not. So, what exactly is being punished?
Candygram.

 

[Fanaelialae]

And people wonder why I view random encounters as punishments.

"You found a way around counting rations, which you find tedious? Have a landshark getting a free shot at ripping out your intestines."

That's not a punishment. It's a tradeoff.

You can spend a few days foraging for food, but there's a chance that you'll run into something. You could have instead invested in more rations (and maybe a mule to carry them), or prepared Create Food and Water for a different tradeoff (in this case the risk that the spell slot would have been useful in a different situation).