D&D General Why Exploration Is the Worst Pillar

[Hussar]

A flooded river would stop them navigating successfully… or a forest fire. They don’t get lost, but that doesn’t extend to circumventing obstacles. A vital part of navigating is the act of moving from A to B. Knowing the direction you should travel is not the same as getting there.

But, let's be honest here. The only reason the DM is doing this is to screw over the party. The party has an ability that bypasses the DM's precious adventure, so, the DM railroads them back into the adventure by placing impenetrable roadblocks in the way until the party gets back on track.

IOW, this is probably the worst form of DMing anyone can do.

 

[Nefermandias]

But, let's be honest here. The only reason the DM is doing this is to screw over the party. The party has an ability that bypasses the DM's precious adventure, so, the DM railroads them back into the adventure by placing impenetrable roadblocks in the way until the party gets back on track.

IOW, this is probably the worst form of DMing anyone can do.

Well, you don't have to artificially set up obstacles that completely negate the party's special abilities. A good DM could easily design a great variety of challenges that requires different approaches to be overcome. If all the structure of the adventure hangs out on any specific obstacle, we can all agree that's a pretty weak adventure.

 

[Hussar]

The opposite extreme, of course, is unbridled power creep.

My goal is to make that number go down to (or below!) zero. Your goal is to prevent that happening.

Everything else is pretty much just gravy.

Situation: party has beaten its way through to a treasure vault, in which is a chest. On opening the chest:

DM: You see six items in here: 1) a pair of dark-green boots; 2) a plain-looking gold ring; 3) a gleaming silver bar or rod about 2 feet long with no obvious markings; 4) a large and gently glowing orange gem; 5) a short length of silk rope, maybe 5 feet long; 6) a stoppered ceramic vial. All of these things look to be easily of high enough quality to be enchanted.

The DM's notes say the following about each item:

1) On donning boots, wearer and all worn or carried gear (incuding these boots!) instantly and permanently transforms into a large fir tree. Roots extend deep into the ground (regardless of ground material). Dexterity and movement speed become 0 and tree cannot become prone. Tree retains intelligence but cannot speak or otherwise physically communicate, though mental or psionic communication is possible. Chopping down or uprooting tree slays it; removing branches causes commensurate damage (etc. etc.)

2. On donning ring, wearer instantly gains a "hidden" wish: the next time the character speaks a sentence starting with the words "I wish" that wish will, as far as possible, come true. Once the wish is transferred (even if not yet used) the ring loses all enchantment and becomes a simple piece of jewelry worth 45 g.p.

3. Bearer gains best possible results when interacting, in a reasonable manner, with metallic Dragons. Has no effect or use otherwise.

4. On being touched to one's own forehead, gem immediately and permanently inserts itself there. Wearer gains at-will telepathic communication with any sentient creature that a) wearer has socially interacted with and b) is willing to receive such communication. If gem is removed from wearer's forehead by any means, wearer dies (no save).

5. While rope is being worn as a belt, wearer cannot be damaged by falling.

6. Vial contains a double-strength potion of healing; though all indications (smell, taste, etc.) point to it being a potion of giant strength.

Clearly here I either need some specific details as to exactly who does exactly what or there's going to potentially be some very big benefits and penalties getting tossed around by random DM fiat. So, details it is.

Now, why on earth am I futzing about with these magic items when all I have to do is wait a bit, and bang out an Identify - heck, 10 minutes is all it takes if it's in my spellbook - and get all that information without a single risk to my character? Knowing that it's entirely possible that you have magic items that will instantly kill my PC, why on earth would I take the risk?

Again, in 5e, after 10 minutes, I can get everything you just wrote there without expending a single resource. Why would I not do that? What is the benefit of blindly fiddling with magic items when fiddling is guaranteed to kill my character/lead to false results (as in example 6)?

This is the point that's been made all through this thread. DM's are expecting this to be this big exploration scene - fun trying out magic items. The game gives me 100% accurate, no fail means of resolving this without expending a single resource except time. And, fiddling about with the magic items will take the same time or more anyway. So, I'm not even losing time.

It's very much like the Ranger thing. Yup, having the ranger means you will unerringly find your destination given enough time. Without the ranger though, you will never reach that destination because you will get lost, which will take far, far more time. What is the benefit of engaging with the exploration pillar here? If using the abilities of the character is bad and not playing the game, then what is the benefit of not using those abilities?

To put it another way, if you don't want me to bypass your exploration pillars, you better make it worth my time to not bypass them. I remember dealing with one DM years ago when we had to do this overland travel thing. My character, a Binder (3e) could summon a Huge monster (centipede AIR) at will for an hour. So, we hopped on the giant centipede, which had a climb speed, and set off overland at a dead run, because, well, killing the centipede didn't mean anything, I could just summon another. Meaning that we were moving at 4X speed overland and able to bypass any obstacle (within reason) because we had a mount with a climb speed. The journey that was supposed to take days took us hours instead. DM just started doing what people have suggested in this thread - very obviously throwing obstacles in the way to railroad us back onto the precious adventure he had prepared.

And, frankly, that's the sense that I'm getting from everyone that is so adamant about how exploration is this hugely rewarding pillar. It's not that spells and powers can bypass these challenges. They most certainly can. It's that these spells and powers are bypassing the DM's precious challenges and the DM, instead of dealing with the fact that the DM made a mistake and didn't recognize what the party could do, starts railroading the party back into line to force them to start engaging with the exploration pillar on the DM's terms.

And, as I'm asking for details this time I need to ask for details every time so as to conceal those times when - like this - details are really important.

When the rules lead to garbage I do respond to that, by saying change the rules.

 

[Hussar]

Well, you don't have to artificially set up obstacles that completely negate the party's special abilities. A good DM could easily design a great variety of challenges that requires different approaches to be overcome. If all the structure of the adventure hangs out on any specific obstacle, we can all agree that's a pretty weak adventure.

Then why all the opposition to what's being said about Rangers? Rangers don't get lost. Full stop. That means that if they have a known destination, they will get there, and they will get there faster than anyone else. If it's an unknown destination, they will still be able to search faster than anyone else. IOW, having a ranger in the party will either bypass or greatly reduce the challenge of an overland exploration challenge.

I mean, I saw it in our Curse of Strahd game. The Ranger had Forest as favored terrain. Guess what? 99% of Barovia is forested. It made overland travel between points in the campaign pretty much automatic. Few levels later, add in Mountains, and you've got the entire campaign covered. Easy peasy. So, this whole "it's hard to get around thing" part of exploration became a moot point with the addition of a single character.

Now, as a DM, you have a choice - either lean into it and accept that this particular challenge isn't really a challenge for this group, or, as so many in this thread have suggested, you start screwing over the ranger player and nerfing his or her abilities to justify your adventure.

I know which option I prefer.

 

[Nefermandias]

Then why all the opposition to what's being said about Rangers? Rangers don't get lost. Full stop. That means that if they have a known destination, they will get there, and they will get there faster than anyone else. If it's an unknown destination, they will still be able to search faster than anyone else. IOW, having a ranger in the party will either bypass or greatly reduce the challenge of an overland exploration challenge.

I mean, I saw it in our Curse of Strahd game. The Ranger had Forest as favored terrain. Guess what? 99% of Barovia is forested. It made overland travel between points in the campaign pretty much automatic. Few levels later, add in Mountains, and you've got the entire campaign covered. Easy peasy. So, this whole "it's hard to get around thing" part of exploration became a moot point with the addition of a single character.

Now, as a DM, you have a choice - either lean into it and accept that this particular challenge isn't really a challenge for this group, or, as so many in this thread have suggested, you start screwing over the ranger player and nerfing his or her abilities to justify your adventure.

I know which option I prefer.

I choose a third option for our current SKT game: I only allow the variant abilities from Tasha's. We don't have a ranger, but I already made it clear that if someone wants to roll one, the PHB abilities must be swapped.

 

[Faolyn]

Now, why on earth am I futzing about with these magic items when all I have to do is wait a bit, and bang out an Identify - heck, 10 minutes is all it takes if it's in my spellbook - and get all that information without a single risk to my character? Knowing that it's entirely possible that you have magic items that will instantly kill my PC, why on earth would I take the risk?

If you have the time, of course. In my experience, the players wait until they can take a rest--and then, most often a long rest--before they start casting spells like identify. Which means they either have to use the items (and potentially get cursed) or not use the items (and potentially lose out on a useful ability). I've never had any of my players decide to just stop what they were doing to cast identify.

Also, one of the things about cursed items is that the spell won't tell you an item is cursed (unless the item's description specifically says that). A legend lore might, but that's a heck of a lot more powerful a spell.

Plus: 100 gp pearl required as a material component, which yeah, you can likely buy at any city but maybe not at a village or town, and you can't definitely buy out in the middle of nowhere. Hopefully you can find one in a pile of treasure, but that's not a given.

And, frankly, that's the sense that I'm getting from everyone that is so adamant about how exploration is this hugely rewarding pillar. It's not that spells and powers can bypass these challenges. They most certainly can. It's that these spells and powers are bypassing the DM's precious challenges and the DM, instead of dealing with the fact that the DM made a mistake and didn't recognize what the party could do, starts railroading the party back into line to force them to start engaging with the exploration pillar on the DM's terms.

So... if the DM includes exploration encounters and hazards, then the only possible explanation is railroading? Not that the DM is trying to include travel as part of the game? I mean, if you're dungeon crawling, you don't just teleport from one room to another; you have to walk down the hallways and open the doors, and those hallways and doors are as much part of the adventure as the rooms are.

 

[Mort]

I choose a third option for our current SKT game: I only allow the variant abilities from Tasha's. We don't have a ranger, but I already made it clear that if someone wants to roll one, the PHB abilities must be swapped.

Gotta say, while I've been impressed with most of the Tasha's optional stuff for the classes, canny(first level of deft explorer) is terrible.

Natural explorer at least fits with an explorer theme and makes rangers actually better than other classes at stuff having to do with their favored domains and in their domains. Canny is basically expertise but strictly worse (you get one skill instead of two), well OK you also get 2 additional languages but compared to natural explorer - it's a massive downgrade.

 

[iserith]

Gotta say, while I've been impressed with most of the Tasha's optional stuff for the classes, canny(first level of deft explorer) is terrible.

Natural explorer at least fits with an explorer theme and makes rangers actually better than other classes at stuff having to do with their favored domains and in their domains. Canny is basically expertise but strictly worse (you get one skill instead of two), well OK you also get 2 additional languages but compared to natural explorer - it's a massive downgrade.

Only if the DM is actually using the exploration rules and presenting the corresponding content in my opinion. Most in my experience do not because they're either not running those kinds of games or don't know about the rules or how to implement them.

 

[Fanaelialae]

But, let's be honest here. The only reason the DM is doing this is to screw over the party. The party has an ability that bypasses the DM's precious adventure, so, the DM railroads them back into the adventure by placing impenetrable roadblocks in the way until the party gets back on track.

IOW, this is probably the worst form of DMing anyone can do.

Sure, if that's why the DM is doing it, that's arguably bad DMing.

However, that is NOT the only possible reason. Maybe the DM had already established in his notes that this river floods during the rainy season. He didn't know whether the PCs would even be out that way, but they happen to head that way during rainy season, and sure enough the river is flooded.

Just because something inconvenient happens doesn't mean the DM is out to get you.

 

[Mort]

Only if the DM is actually using the exploration rules and presenting the corresponding content in my opinion. Most in my experience do not because they're either not running those kinds of games or don't know about the rules or how to implement them.

Even if the DM is utterly clueless (or simply doesn't care) about exploration, natural explorer gives expertise on a potential number of skills (certainly survival, preception and investigation) in the rangers favored terrain plus a host of other benefits (admittedly of limited use without proper exploration usage) . Cany gives one. Now the 6th and 10th level abilities are better, but still.