D&D 5E Rogue's Cunning Action to Hide: In Combat??

[Lyxen]

Can you try to hide from a creature grappling you?

If the grappler can't clearly see you, i mean, it certainly knows where you are having you grappled, but the Stealth rules don't exclude it specifically. I use a similar approach to re-hiding in same location.

Technically, looking only at the rules, you are right, for example if you are in complete darkness, although he touches you, he cannot see you.

But honestly I would never allow it. He's touching you, so he knows where you are, and you can't move away.

I'm still trying to find a situation where it would really provide some advantage, though.

 

[Ovinomancer]

So just a point. While swinging a sword may take slightly longer, it takes about six hundredths of a second to throw a punch. Yet people respond to and block those punches. In D&D you can react to and block a dozen or more punches from different opponents as long as you can see them all.

I just don't see why people would have enough time to react to those attacks, but not the attacks of someone that leans out from cover, aims, times it so they aren't hitting their ally when they know where the attack is likely to come from. Totally unexpected? Okay, it kind of makes sense. The second or third time? You have as much warning as the fact that ogre #3 that's directly behind you is going to throw a punch while ogre #2 to your side and ogre #1 in your face is doing the same.

I don't have a problem with people running this multiple ways, but using "they don't have enough time to react to see the attack coming" as a reason why it must be that way is what doesn't make sense to me. If you're doing it because it suits your style and vision of the game - fantastic! That's all you need to say. Just like for me it doesn't.

That's an odd video. They make that claim, but then fail to prove it, or do so in a way that's not clear. The first "punch" is a jab from a partially extended arm -- the fastest punch throwable -- and doesn't have much power to it because it's a fencing move. The followup is a right hand that starts when the hand dips at .57 and finishes followthrough at .85, taking .18 seconds -- 3 times slower than claimed. It's also not blocked at all -- the other fighter hasn't even started a motion to block. Human reaction time has been well measured at about .25 seconds, which this clip claiming to show .06 second punches clearly shows that the other fighter, who should have a faster than average reaction time, doesn't react to the .18 second punch thrown.

In other words, your source seems iffy -- it's written in a very hyped manner and seems to have taken a non-scientific analysis of a not-high-framerate fight and cherry picked a straight jab as it's source -- one that for your purposes isn't actually reacted to so much as the fighter coming into it anticipates it. But, better still, actual, well documented science says that reaction time is .25 seconds, and not the .06 seconds you're saying is normal for fighters (it's not).

 

[Lyxen]

yes, but cover does not usually works both ways.

There is no such rule. Just apply cover the way it's meant to, by computing the percentage covered for each situation, and you'll find that it's as often symmetrical as not.

By the way, an arrowslit is more or less symmetrical in itself. The reason for the cover not to work the same way is the proximity of the creatures to the arrowslit, not the geometry of the arrowslit (although some have triangular space to allow easier access, it does not really count for cover, it's mostly so that you have a larger arc of fire from within the fortification).

 

[Ovinomancer]

There is no such rule. Just apply cover the way it's meant to, by computing the percentage covered for each situation, and you'll find that it's as often symmetrical as not.

By the way, an arrowslit is more or less symmetrical in itself. The reason for the cover not to work the same way is the proximity of the creatures to the arrowslit, not the geometry of the arrowslit (although some have triangular space to allow easier access, it does not really count for cover, it's mostly so that you have a larger arc of fire from within the fortification).

It absolutely always works this one way except when it doesn't!

 

[Horwath]

There is no such rule. Just apply cover the way it's meant to, by computing the percentage covered for each situation, and you'll find that it's as often symmetrical as not.

OK,
if I'm shooting behind cover at my target I have 50% cover against attacks made by my target, while my target has 0% cover against my attacks.

 

[Lyxen]

That's an odd video. They make that claim, but then fail to prove it, or do so in a way that's not clear. The first "punch" is a jab from a partially extended arm -- the fastest punch throwable -- and doesn't have much power to it because it's a fencing move. The followup is a right hand that starts when the hand dips at .57 and finishes followthrough at .85, taking .18 seconds -- 3 times slower than claimed. It's also not blocked at all -- the other fighter hasn't even started a motion to block. Human reaction time has been well measured at about .25 seconds, which this clip claiming to show .06 second punches clearly shows that the other fighter, who should have a faster than average reaction time, doesn't react to the .18 second punch thrown.

In other words, your source seems iffy -- it's written in a very hyped manner and seems to have taken a non-scientific analysis of a not-high-framerate fight and cherry picked a straight jab as it's source -- one that for your purposes isn't actually reacted to so much as the fighter coming into it anticipates it. But, better still, actual, well documented science says that reaction time is .25 seconds, and not the .06 seconds you're saying is normal for fighters (it's not).

It's a bit long for me, 19 minutes, but I have a couple of anecdotes, in particular about my kendo sensei, who had dabbled in about every martial art on the planet before going to Japan and earning his dans.

He gave us a demonstration that was really interesting as to how a kendo strike is quite similar to a punch, as long as you are doing it right, the positions are somewhat similar, and there's a lot about the positioning of the foot at the rear to get power, the stability of the core and the speed of the arm being augmented by the torsion of the forearm and the hand. Then, in kendo, you have the whiplash of the blade going forward, but still the rotation of the hands around the hilt, just like your fist rotates when you punch.

Of course, in kendo, it's all about speed and cutting and not about the power of the punch. But doing it right with your whole body changes absolutely everything.

 

[Lyxen]

OK,
if I'm shooting behind cover at my target I have 50% cover against attacks made by my target, while my target has 0% cover against my attacks.

It really depends on the type of cover. If you are standing just behind a low wall, I 100% agree with you, the wall covers your legs when it covers nothing of your foe.

If the target has cover because there is a creature standing between you two, you have exactly the same degree of cover.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

But what if that one pillar in the middle of the room that the halfling rogue is attempting to hide behind during combat is… the exploration pillar?!?

 

[Ovinomancer]

But what if that one pillar in the middle of the room that the halfling rogue is attempting to hide behind during combat is… the exploration pillar?!?

The exploration pillar is the worst pillar, and so the hiding is the worst hiding.

 

[Plaguescarred]

While we are in agreement here, we have to be careful at the same time. The exact rule is that "A target has half cover if an obstacle blocks at least half of its body." A creature is just an example of what might usually provide cover for at least half of its body ("The obstacle might be a low wall, a large piece of furniture, a narrow tree trunk, or a creature, whether that creature is an enemy or a friend.").

However, if a halfling were to hide behind, let's say, a purple worm or a gelatinous cube, the DM might rule that the target has at least three-quarter cover and maybe total cover for the gelatinous cube.

Creatures provide half cover, wether they're tiny or Gargantua.