D&D 5E Ability Score Increases (I've changed my mind.)

[Crimson Longinus]

For the record, I have zero interest in "playing against type". I consider it a racist way of thinking. It is the application of a racist stereotype, reinforced by "youre not like the rest of your race".

Heh, for a game to mechanically enforce such an appalling worldview, is appalling.

I get it that earlier generations did this to subvert reallife racism. But today we can minimize and eliminate racist tropes, rather than merely subvert them.

I prefer each race includes diverse individuals within the community of a race. Different individuals do different things excellently.

So having an elf who dislikes magic would be racist?

 

[Malmuria]

For the record, I have zero interest in "playing against type". I consider it a racist way of thinking. It is the application of a racist stereotype, reinforced by "youre not like the rest of your race".

Heh, for a game to mechanically enforce such an appalling worldview, is appalling.

It makes somewhat more sense when you think of the folkloric origins of some fantasy creatures--that they had a specific identity and logic and acted in a certain way. What modern (i.e. 20th c.) fantasy does, however, is marry that to a (pseudo) sociological approach to worldbuilding, wherein each fantasy race gets basically one or two essentialized cultures. But, fwiw, I think this aspect of fantasy remains whether or not there is racial asi (or alignment for that matter).

An ability like elven trance is a good example of something that makes elves distinctive and is essentializing insofar as it applies to all elves, but not in a way that seems offensive because of it (to my mind anyway...I might be wrong).

 

[Yaarel]

So having an elf who dislikes magic would be racist?

To be fair, insisting on the D&D narrative tradition that elves personify magical beings, helps DIVERSIFY the elven abilities. Where the elf especially correlates with the description of the Bard class as magical songs and magical artwork, and magical influence, that is Charisma abilility score improvement +2. Likewise Druid elemental magic Wisdom +2, and gray elf Wizard Intelligence +2. Meanwhile, I have also advocated the grugach elf that is superhumanly strong thus Strength +2, and so on like Basic elf corresponding to Strength. The extreme longevity of the elf would normally imply high Constitution.

In sum, the elf can choose any ability score improvement to explore any of the many official D&D tropes about the elf. The elf character concepts are fluid.



By implication, the Feywild and the Shadowfell are aspects within the Ethereal Plane. The fey are immaterial spirits, like ghosts are.

In my setting, the fey elves are strictly magical classes, without martial classes. Humans in the Material Plane are especially martial classes. Nevertneless, an elf who grows up in human culture can become a superlatively good at a martial class, including a +2 Strength improvement. Viceversa, a human who grows up in the ethereal Feywild can be superlatively good at a magical class, including a +2 Charisma improvement using a half feat with an additional +1 to get the +2. Thus there is no essentialism. Merely, different cultures.

 

[Bill Zebub]

Yes. And this is the sort of thing that should be a campaign level decision, not a player level decision.

Why is that? What problem do you foresee if it’s a player level decision?

 

[Crimson Longinus]

In my setting, the fey elves are strictly magical classes, without martial classes. Humans in the Material Plane are especially martial classes. Nevertneless, an elf who grows up in human culture can become a superlatively good at a martial class, including a +2 Strength improvement. Viceversa, a human who grows up in the ethereal Feywild can be superlatively good at a magical class, including a +2 Charisma improvement using a half feat with an additional +1 to get the +2. Thus there is no essentialism. Merely, different cultures.

Why not just have material plane humans and feywild humans then? What does having elves add to this?

Also, I have to say that having one's nature to be essentialised based on ones place of origin is pretty much identical to a lot of real life racist beliefs and the essentialisation here (has magic vs. doesn't have magic) is far more fundamental than anything the racial ASIs ever produce (has a tendency to be slightly better at a thing.)

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Why is that? What problem do you foresee if it’s a player level decision?

I'm not sure if it is exactly a problem, but as player level decision it fundamentally doesn't do what I want it to do. I want the rules to reflect and define the capabilities of species, and if abiding by those definitions is optional, they effectively do not exist. It's like if class spell lists were just suggestions and a player could just decide to ignore them and take spells from any class' list.

 

[Bill Zebub]

Why is that? What problem do you foresee if it’s a player level decision?

And to follow-up to my own question: is it the same with attribute generation? Is there a potential problem if some players use point buy and some use standard array?

 

[Bill Zebub]

I'm not sure if it is exactly a problem, but as player level decision it fundamentally doesn't do what I want it to do. I want the rules to reflect and define the capabilities of species, and if abiding by those definitions is optional, they effectively do not exist. It's like if class spell lists were just suggestions and a player could just decide to ignore them and take spells from any class' list.

So, to pick an example, it negatively affects your experience if your expectation in a game world is that a halfling must be level 4 to have a 17 strength, and a player who doesn’t share that expectation shows up with a 1st level halfling with 17 strength?

Or am I totally in the weeds? If so, I’d love an illustrative example of what you mean.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

And to follow-up to my own question: is it the same with attribute generation? Is there a potential problem if some players use point buy and some use standard array?

As array is buyable with the point buy, then if point buy is allowed the array by definition is too. The inverse however of course is not true. And rolling is completely different thing. But ultimately it is a GM level decision what ability generation methods is used. Some allow using any method, I wouldn't; everyone uses the same method.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

So, to pick an example, it negatively affects your experience if your expectation in a game world is that a halfling must be level 4 to have a 17 strength, and a player who doesn’t share that expectation shows up with a 1st level halfling with 17 strength?

Basically yes.