Spiderman No Way Home Trailer

[Snarf Zagyg]

I mean, you just admitted it is "junk" so...

And, really this is a strawman. I didn't say people cannot enjoy such fare. I said that I didn't find it a shame it was cancelled. I, personally, find it an ill-fitting piece for under the Marvel banner, which is otherwise about heroic figures.

Well, Deadpool and Ghost Rider aren't full-on paragons on virtue. Namor has certainly been prickly in the past. And Venom? Eh ... he does eat people, no matter how much you might play it for laughs.

By the 90s, and certainly when Marvel left the CCA in 2001, they had more than their fair share of main characters that weren't exactly heroic figures.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

The initial Punisher comic book back in the 80's/90's was good and he was more of the anti-hero back then. Besides, if people can enjoy psychopathic junk like Dexter or Hannibal or The Sopranos, where the bad guy is glorified, why not Punisher?

People can do whatever they like, including liking Punisher. I find his basic premise to be only really worthy of a limited run comic and maybe the occasional re-examination of that run, for a ton of reasons, but that needn’t impact your enjoyment.

exactly. next up wolverine wont be a hero.

Last I checked, Wolverine isn’t a mass-murdering psychopath who thinks that societies big problem is that cops don’t do enough murder.

I actually dislike all three of those shows for that exact reason …

Same. Well, Dexter was interesting sometimes.

 

[Umbran]

Last I checked, Wolverine isn’t a mass-murdering psychopath who thinks that societies big problem is that cops don’t do enough murder.

So, comics-canon, not even Punisher believes that. He very specifically tells cops their role model should be Captain America, not himself.

Spoiler: Punisher on what cops should do

 

[doctorbadwolf]

So, comics-canon, not even Punisher believes that. He very specifically tells cops their role model should be Captain America, not himself.

Spoiler: Punisher on what cops should do

View attachment 143156

I could be wrong, but that was written in response to the fact that people were IRL lionizing Punisher and putting his symbol on actual cop cars and tactical vests and the like. Very important statement to make.

The Nextflix version, at least, looks down on vigilantes who don’t do what he does. I can’t see him disagreeing if someone said the cops should have more freedom to use deadly force.

But yes, comics canon, Punisher is that weird edgelord fantasy of the monster who knows he’s a monster but takes on that “burden” to Do What Must Be Done(tm). It’s all very manly, very 90’s, and very tired.

And don’t get me started on the tacit approval of a whole world of superheroes who absolutely could take Castle down and actively choose not to…

 

[Umbran]

Well, Deadpool and Ghost Rider aren't full-on paragons on virtue.

I think Deadpool is an overdone fake-edgy gimmick, so...

And there's a bit of a different between not being a paragon of virtue, and shooting at people for littering.

Namor has certainly been prickly in the past.

Namor is not clearly presented as a hero - he's often the villain of the piece.

And Venom? Eh ... he does eat people, no matter how much you might play it for laughs.

Yep. Not a fan of Venom, either. I'm pretty consistent.

And, as to Venom - the symbiote was introduced in 1984. The Eddie Brock version of the character showed up fully in 1988. For several years he appeared strictly as a villain. He was given his own comic in 1993, in which they tried to transition him to an anti-hero. After several stories in that line, it was cancelled in 1997, in significant part because Marvel's Editor-in-Chief at the time (Bob Harras) was not comfortable with the character having his own title.

So, let us not pretend that Venom-as-hero is somehow unquestionable, when their own editors aren't always behind it..

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Yep. Not a fan of Venom, either. I'm pretty consistent.

And, as to Venom - the symbiote was introduced in 1984. The Eddie Brock version of the character showed up fully in 1988. For several years he appeared strictly as a villain. He was given his own comic in 1993, in which they tried to transition him to an anti-hero. After several stories in that line, it was cancelled in 1997, in significant part because Marvel's Editor-in-Chief at the time (Bob Harras) was not comfortable with the character having his own title.

So, let us not pretend that Venom-as-hero is somehow unquestionable, when their own editors aren't always behind it..

Also Venom is a character who regrets his villainous actions, and is only ever successfully shown as a hero in the context of seeking redemption, such as in the Agent Venom run.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

So, let us not pretend that Venom-as-hero is somehow unquestionable, when their own editors aren't always behind it..

I'm not pretending anything; just noting that you can't exactly claim that Marvel doesn't have a history of anti-heroes, or that the presence of same is "ill-fitting" under the Marvel banner.

If you prefer your heroes ... heroic, that I can understand. But the world of TV and movies has certainly trended in the direction of grimdark.

 

[Tonguez]

I, personally, find it an ill-fitting piece for under the Marvel banner, which is otherwise about heroic figures.

really? Iron Man is started life as an unscrupulous weapons manufacturer with a drinking problem, Black widow was an assassin, Hulk is an outright monster. if anything Punisher was a more honest portrayal of vigilante behaviour, reflecting some of the 1970s cynicism

 

[Umbran]

I'm not pretending anything; just noting that you can't exactly claim that Marvel doesn't have a history of anti-heroes, or that the presence of same is "ill-fitting" under the Marvel banner.

That they have been present does nothing to argue against MY finding them ill-fitting. I mean, tomato hornworms are ill-fitting in your home garden, but they are unfortunately often present.

 

[Rabulias]

Just some idle thoughts:
Folks online have thrown out theories that the Dr. Strange who (mis)casts the spell is not really Dr. Strange, but is Mephisto (again!), or the Chameleon, or a faked-death Mysterio. At the end of Spider-Man: Far From Home, we are left with not only the revelation of Peter's identity, but Mysterio falsely believed to be a hero. Beck being shown to be alive and shown to be responsible for the elemental attacks would help clear Spider-Man's name going forward. This would help if they leave Peter's identity public. Or maybe Sony wants to lean into the "Spider-Man Menace" angle that the comics used to hold?

The only problem with the Beck theory (and the Chameleon) is where did they learn to cast spells? Working magic is not a problem with Mephisto, of course, but I doubt they will be going that direction. So I was thinking maybe Wanda had something to do with this? We have a mysterious invisible figure descending on Wanda's cabin in the end credits scene of WandaVision. If that was Dr. Strange arriving, what if Wanda was able to magically control/nudge/manipulate him in some way to lead him to more reckless behavior regarding the multiverse? Or maybe disguise herself as him and take his place?

Looking forward to this movie more every day!