D&D General The "Jack Of All Trades" is a cursed archetype in tabletop RPGs

[Li Shenron]

A jack of all trades character class has never been good design in a team RPG, and this is due to the fact that you can only do one thing at once so the definition of the concept is that you are always doing something you aren't the best at.

It works in a solo/team cRPG because the PCs in most CRPGs are Special and surrounded by NPCs who are, ultimately, not as good at things as they are. If you take, for example, a reasonably skilled player playing as Commander Shepherd your guns are probably doing more damage than those of your squadmates no matter which class you pick assuming you care enough about shooting to use them at all. Because, being a PC surrounded by NPCs you are awesome - your choice is how to be awesome and "I'm awesome because I'm as good as anyone at anything" works.

But in a team based RPG your team mates are masters of things. A Jack Of All Trades Master of None can only do one thing at once so they are never ever doing anything they are a master at. They are always second rate compared to other party members. And they can't even do everything at once, stacking synergies, due to the action economy and due to that being something they would be a master at.

In D&D 5e it is worse than that because there are a number of hybrid characters with secondary areas. A paladin, for example, is a primary brawler and secondary healer and secondary face. By contrast a melee cleric is a primary healer and secondary brawler. A "jack of all trades" brawls like a cleric and heals like a paladin. And stealths at best like a non-Shadow monk, but not like a rogue, ranger, or shadow monk.

So given that most characters are flexible and should be able to contribute in all three pillars (meaning they should have at least three areas of reasonable expertise of which a non-JOAT class should be a master of at least one) you're down to at least the fourth and probably the fifth or sixth area a class contributes in before a Jack of All Trades nature means that its area of all trades is better than the mediocrity of another class unless they are actually a master of something, exploiting synergies.

You are absolutely right on all accounts.

A roleplay game is about each PC having a role, it's ok that complex RPGs like D&D allow everyone to have secondary roles, but if someone has too many roles then inevitably the whole character is diluted down. My personal opinion is that JOAT characters are made for 2 kinds of players, those who genuinely can't decide what to play, and those who want to win the game against the others. For the first kind, it is better to just remind them that they are not going to have only a single shot at playing the game in their entire life, they can play one character role in this campaign and another role in the next.

 

[Thomas Shey]

I wouldn't say "rarely," but even saying "rarely" would indicate that there is not an absence of time(s) when a JOAT is valuable.

A lot of things are occasionally valuable. That doesn't justify the overhead on having them.

I believe that the level of rarity changes when looking at other rpgs and when looking at a wider variety of tactical situations.

I would tend to agree that breadth-of-skill loses utility in rpgs (such as most built on the d20 system) which have a more vertical model of advancement.

I don't actually spend much time in the D&D-sphere, so my comment is based primarily on other RPGs, and I think I've seen no lack of variety of tactical situations over the years.

 

[Slit518]

I am not concerned with the Jack-of-all-Trades character Class, aka the Bard in 5e, mainly because they get Expertise. Want to Stealth really good? Put Expertise in it! Bards also have Spells to supplement things as well. Sure they can buff friends and such, but, they have other utility as well. And the best part is they can focus on those weak areas by choosing an archetype. Combat for Valor Bards, more Skills and Spells for Lore Bards.

What is another example of Jack-of-all-Trades character Class?

 

[MarkB]

What is another example of Jack-of-all-Trades character Class?

Druid does pretty well. Wild shape covers both front-line combat and exploration/stealth utility, they have most of the healing-spell options that clerics and bards do plus some of their own, and they're full spellcasters with a varied spell list so they can cover control and damage-dealing.

They don't have much going for them in social situations by default, but they've got Charm spells.

 

[Steampunkette]

The way I've always seen the Jack in TTRPGs is in three broken categories.

1) Weak at everything, but able to do it all. This is your basic Bradley Tank issue. For those who don't know, the Bradley was a tank that couldn't take a hit or shoot back with big rounds, it was a personnel carrier that couldn't carry troops, it was an amphibious vehicle that sank, and it was an all-terrain-vehicle that would get stuck. The US Military tried to do too many things at once and couldn't engineer any of them properly.

2) Good at 2-3 things, but rubbish when it counts. You see this a lot in videogame Jacks, too, where they're survivable in melee, do decent healing, but can't actually hit worth a darn. But they'll pick every lock and woo every barmaid.

3) Really good at 1 thing, decent at several others. The 5e Bard. You can build them to be good healers, good melee-support, good thief-replacements... but the amount of specialization you have to put in means they wind up lacking in other directions.

To make a really top-notch Jack of All Trades you need a class that is -almost- as good at everything as everyone else... Or something most people don't really delve into too much: Able to do multiple things at once.

A Bard class that has decent melee attacks and survivability who can keep up a "Healing Song" that isn't a spell but provides on-demand healing to their team without using up their action economy for attacking? Choice. Able to fire a cantrip off at range -and- slap someone in melee? Choice.

For a real Jack you just need to let them do their thing -and- something else at the same time. Maybe their secondary effect is weaker (Like making that Healing Song provide low actual healing, or use your reaction to apply it in response to someone getting hit) but by doing both at once you show the character is doing a whole bunch of stuff in the fight, rather than one or two things.

 

[Aldarc]

I'm a bit surprised, @Neonchameleon, that you didn't mention the failure of "the hybrid tax" in World of Warcraft.

 

[Argyle King]

A lot of things are occasionally valuable. That doesn't justify the overhead on having them.



I don't actually spend much time in the D&D-sphere, so my comment is based primarily on other RPGs, and I think I've seen no lack of variety of tactical situations over the years.

I can't comment on what you've seen or haven't seen.

Personally, if building a squad to regularly engage in conflict, there are circumstances in which I'd choose the squad member who is okay at most things over the squad member who is great at one thing but a liability when I need them to do other things.

I agree that does fall short in games which are built around the idea of needing to stack more numbers to keep up with some idea of being level-appropriate.

 

[Scribe]

I'm a bit surprised, @Neonchameleon, that you didn't mention the failure of "the hybrid tax" in World of Warcraft.

Depending on your chosen version of the game, that gets solved nicely.

As to the issue of a Jack of All Trades, it can be accounted for in a number of ways.

Flexibility in the utility offered or mechanics present, to augment one pillar or another, but not all.
Variety in encounters to give the JoAT more room to fill in gaps that more specialized classes cannot.
Subclasses to allow the JoAT to specialize but still retain its original flavour, if not flexibility.
Not letting them actually do it all, but to push them towards a mixed hybrid approach across a few roles.

It can be done, but the effort is probably beyond what most dev's wish to invest.

 

[pming]

Hiya!

A jack of all trades character class has never been good design in a team RPG, and this is due to the fact that you can only do one thing at once so the definition of the concept is that you are always doing something you aren't the best at.

(((SNIP)))

This is going to come down to "Campaign and DM style". I guarantee it...

So given that most characters are flexible and should be able to contribute in all three pillars (meaning they should have at least three areas of reasonable expertise of which a non-JOAT class should be a master of at least one) you're down to at least the fourth and probably the fifth or sixth area a class contributes in before a Jack of All Trades nature means that its area of all trades is better than the mediocrity of another class unless they are actually a master of something, exploiting synergies.

This may be true if the DM's campaign style and 'feel' is in line with the assumption presented via any of the "Hardback Adventure Paths" (Hoard of the Dragon Queen, Curse of Strahd, Out of the Abyss, etc). That is, very tight, to the point, "encounters" with short periods in safe areas of "ok, do a few things then get back to the adventure".

But, in a more "Old Skool" style game, where an entire session or two can be spent with the PC's in a town just roleplaying, getting specific equipment made, healing naturally, etc...where Players may get a good 15 minutes of 'me time' one-on-one with the DM while the other Players sit there and just enjoy the story (even if their PC's aren't involved in any of it)...then a JoaT character will be literally SHINNING! A "normal" DC for a safe and mundane 'check' in a town is going to be, what, 8 to 12? Maybe? Sure, the "expert" might have +9 to his check and the JoaT might only have +4...but with a DC10, that's not hard to make.

When asked "Does anyone have Skill XYZ?" and the JoaT says "Yes" every time....that's impressive! When it comes up multiple times over the course of a session spent in town when other PC's are saying "No" 90% of the time, well, as I said... shinning like a beacon!

In fact, in several games we've had with a Bard in 5e, it got to the point where I'd ask "Does anyone have..." and everyone would blurt out "Ask the Bard...".

Of course, as I said, DM Campaign Style makes a big difference. Often if you "have" an actual Skill (you get your Prof bonus), you'd just get info/success with no roll because all you need is to know baseline info. The only time I make a Player roll is if there is some potential immediate consequences for failure because the situation is "unusual" somehow. But if you are the type of DM that has a Player make a DC 15 Religion roll to see if they recognise a fairly common Goddesses holy symbol...then a JoaT may not be as useful.

^_^

Paul L. Ming

 

[jgsugden]

A Jack of All Trades would be someone that can fill in all of the roles in a D&D party. They could be on the front line, or in the rear, and be effective. They're effective in social and exploration pillars in addition to combat pillars. They can heal allies. They can use 'save or suck' magics/abilities, as well as deal high amounts of damage.

The majority of my PCs fit that description - and I pretty much always have fun with them. And, I have only played one PC in all of 5E that I had to retire because it was not a fun build (and that was situation specific - I built a PC that specialized in melee buffing and everyone else decided to play ranged PCs...). I do have some PCs with clear gaps (a barbarian with no social skills, etc...) and those are fun to play too - but most PCs are effective at everything. My monk, as you note is common with other monks, is not as stealthy as a rogue with expertise in stealth - but he has the shadow touched feat and two abilities that allow him to sneak up on enemies better than many rogues can. There are a lot of ways to skin a displacer beast. His social skills are limited to persuasion and insight - but he can communicate with any creature that has a language, which gives him a leg up on other PCs in the social department.

You can build a PC that hits those criteria in any class. Further, you can do it in a variety of ways.