Pathfinder 1E When the min-maxer tries to build your character for you.

[Fauchard1520]

There’s nothing worse than unsolicited personal advice. There you are minding your own business, just trying to be the best you that you can be, when some jackhole decides to chime in with their naughty word hot take.

“Yeah dude, you really ought to go half-elf with that build.”

“Who doesn’t take power attack?”

“I don’t want to tell you your business, but the rapier is the only real option.”

Funny how such opinion-wielders never want to tell you your business, then proceed to tell you your business. Maybe I’ve got storyline reasons for not going half-elf. Maybe I’m challenging myself to build sans power attack. Maybe my short sword was the gladius gifted to me by my Roman-esque mentor before she died in the arena. Rapier doesn’t quite fit into the picture, you know?

Now let-me-be-clear: the key word in all of the above is ‘unsolicited.’ If you’ve gone to the forums or your buddies and asked for an opinion, there’s no reason to get your dander all up in a bother because of honest feedback. The only correct response there is, “Thanks for taking the time to help a gamer out.” If you want to have an ongoing dialogue, maybe you explain your thought process a little and hash out the options from there. But here’s what’s truly obnoxious: Sitting down at a table with an oddball of a PC and immediately hearing, “Why would you ever make a halfling fighter? That’s an awful choice! Human would have been much better.”

So here's my question for the board: Have any of you guys dealt with this mess? What was your build, and what advice was forcibly plungered down your esophagus? Is there a best way to politely discourage this nonsense beyond a light stabbing?

(Comic for illustrative purposes.)

 

[DemoMonkey]

Communicating with other people is always bad. Best to avoid it altogether.

 

[payn]

I havent experienced this in awhile, but I recall a super fun forum discussion once. The OP said he wanted to make a swashbuckler character that used a rapier. The thread devolved into making a monk who uses a piercing strike with their empty hand lol.

There are myriad of pitfalls in the 3E/PF1 system so its hard to sit back and not offer advice when somebody is making a mistake. I usually will ask beforehand if I may make a suggestion or ask if they would like advice. Oddly enough, I recently had to get very surely with a player because they felt asking, "may I make a suggestion" beforehand was excusing their constant commenting on other's chargen. So, you should also respect their answer if it is no too.

 

[Urriak Uruk]

I also loathe when it's your turn, and other players give unsolicited advice, "You really need to do this right now, otherwise your wasting your turn." Just let me make my own decisions gosh darnit!

 

[pming]

Hiya!

So here's my question for the board: Have any of you guys dealt with this mess? What was your build, and what advice was forcibly plungered down your esophagus? Is there a best way to politely discourage this nonsense beyond a light stabbing?

Never in any version of D&D/AD&D...actually, never in any game with anyone with ONE exception: "The Smith Family". Playing Rolemaster for the first time. No, I will not go into details because me and my best friend still have PTSD from that whole year+ experience (and, again, no, I am NOT KIDDING about the PTSD thing!)

When making our very first RM characters we were constantly told "Oh, you can choose...[list of 14 classes]", then we'd look them over, pick one and get "Oh. You should play a [insert one or two classes]". Next "Here are the races..[insert 10 races]"...then... "Oh. You should take [this race] in stead]". This continued for EVERY single choice. Ok, maybe not every, but easily 99/100. "Oh, don't take Dagger...take Jamiya from this supplement"... "Take the backpack from this supplement because it's the same but weighs less"... "Don't go with blue eyes, make them brown...our GM will have everyone attack you because a notorious villain in our game has blue eyes" (and, again, not kidding on that level of craziness!).

Anyhoo... I think some people who are really into "optimizing" and love the rules minutia are the ones who can't help themselves but constantly offer "suggestions". Some of these people actually get angry...raised voice, furrowed brow, etc...when they see someone taking Fighter and choosing to fight with a Quarterstaff and wear leather armour. In their mind, someone making a character can't POSSIBLY have fun with it and they are worried that such a "sucky character" is going to get their character killed...the character they spent over 17 hours reading, searching, and 'building'.

^_^

Paul L. Ming

 

[Eltab]

I have found that generally, replying with "And will YOU be playing this character?" dissuades the unsolicited rebuild-advice-giver. I can learn through my own experience ... and from my own mistakes.

This is coming from somebody who will take a new player 'under my wing' and help them figure out what their character is supposed to do and how to do it - as a friend (I hope) and mentor, not by running their character while they watch.

 

[Marc Radle]

This is one of the reasons a hate the term character build … it just implies that you are mechanically building a character based only on numbers and bonuses.

I much prefer saying I am creating my character … there’s more of a sense that I am using creative ideas, a sense of fun when I get to play the character, interesting backstory, etc. as well as considering the math and best options.

I’ve always felt creating a D&D character should be as much a form of creative expression (or art) as science.

 

[PhiloPharynx]

I do find that a game generally goes smoother if most of the characters are close to the same level of optimization. If there's too much of a difference, then it gets hard to balance encounters. I think people should find some happy medium that everybody can enjoy.

 

[payn]

I do find that a game generally goes smoother if most of the characters are close to the same level of optimization. If there's too much of a difference, then it gets hard to balance encounters. I think people should find some happy medium that everybody can enjoy.

Question then is are you willing to come down to their level or are you going to pester them until they climb up to yours? Some folks want to learn the system by trying it themselves and a lot of folks try to prevent that.

 

[aco175]

I mostly find that people in general want to help, and this may mean even if unsolicited. People are social and in a setting where you are doing the same thing it makes people have something to talk about. I like to play golf and might see new players doing something that I think I can help with by giving a tip. I used to try and offer, but more sit back now and wait until asked. Golf is fickle like that, but I see lots of activities or games where this may happen.

Worse is when advise comes in game with someone telling you you should cure wounds instead of healing word, or whatever the Pathfinder equivalent is, because of blah, blah, blah...