D&D 5E On fairies and flying

[jgsugden]

In combat, I don't see a huge difference between a flying ranged character and a ranged character who hangs out at the back of the room.

That does depend on the size and shape of the room.

I still prefer zero to hero. Not superhero to god. There are dedicated superhero games for that.

And flight, by itself, is not making a character a superhero or otherwise off the power scale. Often you can achieve the same thing with climbing, walking back a decent distance, etc... It sets you apart - but it isn't ridiculous.

PCs have been flying for a loooooooooooooooong time. In 3E and before, it was pretty perfunctory as you passed 5th level to have airborne PCs - often at 3rd level with levitate.

Is that what D&D is for now? To make the players feel cool and special?

.... Yes? The PC, and thus the player behind them in a very real sense, are the heroes of the story. They're supposed to be cool and special in a good story. How is this possibly a surprise?

 

[Laurefindel]

The goats get to live, and the PCs are spared a boring fight, where is the loss?

The loss is that no one is fighting a goat... or go deer hunting. They are fighting a pack of were-goats or hunting the mystical giant elk, or more likely, facing an hydra, or a T-rex, or a shambling mound, or whatever.

There's no need for being dismissive

 

[BookTenTiger]

So, you’re a player. When you go to make your character you want the full range of options available to you so that you can make whatever you want to play. That’s freedom of choice that you enjoy. And when the DM says no flying races, no multiclassing, no variant humans, no outlander background, no feats, or bans certain feats...it feels like your choices are restricted. Like you’ve lost some freedom of choice. Even if you weren’t going to use the stuff the DM banned, it still feels like less choice. Because it is.

But now try to use a tad bit of empathy and recognize that the DM feels exactly the same way when their choices are limited by PC choices.

And when the players object to choices being removed, I imagine the DM could make much the same argument as you have. “The players’ precious character choices.” But that’s not a great argument.

Unfortunately, this aspect of the game really is zero sum. The more choices the players have, the fewer choices the DM has. The more choices the DM has, the fewer choices the players have.

I get that, as a player, you want infinite choices and all the skip buttons, but that means exponentially more work for the DM to prepare something that will actually challenge the party. I guess you could simply not care how much work that is. But then it’s having fun at the expense of the DM rather than in collaboration with the DM. “I get to do whatever I want and the DM just has to deal with it.”

Is this something that's actually happened to you?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

The loss is that no one is fighting a goat... or go deer hunting. They are fighting a pack of were-goats or more likely, an hydra, or a T-rex, or a shambling mound, or whatever.

There's no need for being dismissive

Then why not make them fire breathing were-goats/hydra/T-Rex? It's the DM's choice not to give them ranged attacks. If all they can do is bite they are going to be boring to fight, no matter how big and scaly they are.

 

[J.Quondam]

Fairies are small, which means carry weight is halved, so even a strong one won't be able to carry another full size PC until they get enlarge at level 5.

They could carry a rope across, like a familiar.

Just for the record, I believe Small creatures are treated same as Medium for purposes of carrying capacity. The half-capacity rule is for Tiny and smaller creatures.

Using Ability Scores

D&D Beyond - Dungeons & Dragons Fifth Edition Tools, Rules, Races, Classes, Items, Spells, Monsters, and More

www.dndbeyond.com

 

[BookTenTiger]

The loss is that no one is fighting a goat... or go deer hunting. They are fighting a pack of were-goats or hunting the mystical giant elk, or more likely, facing an hydra, or a T-rex, or a shambling mound, or whatever.

There's no need for being dismissive

Can't all those things be routed by a group with good perception and stealth? Or a ranger scouting ahead? Or a wizard using Rope Trick until the monsters leave?

I just don't see flying as any more of a "Get Out of Jail Free" Card than any other power.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Just for the record, I believe Small creatures are treated same as Medium for purposes of carrying capacity. The half-capacity rule is for Tiny and smaller creatures.

Using Ability Scores

D&D Beyond - Dungeons & Dragons Fifth Edition Tools, Rules, Races, Classes, Items, Spells, Monsters, and More

www.dndbeyond.com

Ah yes, you are correct.

 

[Dausuul]

Except all the things a PC can do that a familiar cannot. Use of hands, thumbs, fingers, arms, self-direction, decision making, full range of action economy, class abilities, and weapon use. Familiars who fly are nowhere near on par with PCs who fly.

In a tactical sense, all that is true. But in terms of the impact on adventure design--which is to say, the obstacles that can or cannot be bypassed entirely by flight--I have found little difference in practice.

When some party members can fly, but not all of them, the main obstacles the flyers can bypass are a) defenses against reconnaissance on land, b) needing to get something to an inaccessible place, and c) needing to retrieve something from an inaccessible place. A flying PC is better at these jobs than a flying familiar; but most of the time the flying familiar is good enough for the need at hand, and that's all that matters. And players are generally very clever about finding ways around the familiar's limitations.

Conversely, the big limitation of the "some flight" party--being shackled to its ground-bound members--remains in force either way. (If the winged PC is strong enough to carry all other party members, then the party has edged into "all flight." That does pose a problem, and I'd favor rules that make this hard to achieve, such as a drastically lower encumbrance limit while airborne.)

 

[overgeeked]

I know quite well the cost of setting up challenges for a group of creative players.

Making a choice in character creation that removes the challenge from a sizeable patch of encounters is not "creative players". Creative players are the ones who overcome obstacles despite limitations and setbacks. Players who pick skip buttons in character creation are avoiding those limitations and setbacks.

The difference is I recognize that the DM always has and will have functionally unlimited choices no matter what their PCs throw at them if they want to challenge them.

The PC that flies is never challenged by ground-based obstacles. That removes that as an effective challenge for that PC. It's still a challenge for the other PCs...maybe...if the flying PC doesn't obviate the challenge for the whole party. The DM certainly can use other things to challenge the PCs, but ground-based obstacles are literally no longer an option to challenge the party. It's gone as an option.

The balance of power in this relationship is still in the DM's hands.

It's not about a balance of power, it's about options. Flight removes options from the DM's bag of tricks.

Worried that flying PCs will trivialize an obstacle? Add things/creatures to the area that can complicate the situation. Got an underground chasm you are worried that flyers may trivialize? Add cave fishers or darkmantles who can keep the situation hazardous. Lots of scouting about in the wilderness? Flyers draw attention and are relatively easy to spot. And if they do trivialize a potential encounter? So what? There are a lot of encounters in a D&D world that can be expected to be trivial - easily avoided, easily defeated, or dealt with via interaction. That I may tailor a few in a different way than I would if there were no flyers in the group isn't that big a deal.

Right. But you do see what's happening there, right? Escalation. The PC now has this new toy they can use to make all those challenges not challenging...so you have to escalate the situation to compensate for it. You have to artificially make things harder to keep them challenging. What would otherwise be a challenge for a tier 2 party with regular access to the fly spell and magic items that allow flight is now used against a tier 1 party because of permanent PC flight. Because instead of zero to hero, it's superhero to god.

Chances are the players will do something completely unexpected anyway!

It is to be hoped. Lately, most of the new to me players I deal with seem to just call out a skill, throw a d20, and expect to win.

 

[overgeeked]

PCs have been flying for a loooooooooooooooong time. In 3E and before, it was pretty perfunctory as you passed 5th level to have airborne PCs - often at 3rd level with levitate.

Read the rest of my post. I mention that.