D&D 5E Do you think 5e is deadly enough and do you finish off downed characters?

[Voadam]

I am much happier with 5e lethality than previous editions. I want tough combats where any individual PC can be overpowered by the luck of the rolls but also lots of long-term character development and continuity. Dropping characters without lots of risk of killing them outside of TPKs suits my preferred tastes well.

I have still managed to kill two out of five of my brother's 5e PCs, and one out of four of my son's, in 5e games of mine so far though.

 

[Oofta]

The DM has infinite dragons, the game is as deadly as the group wants it to be. I always ask during sessions 0's how deadly people want the game to be so based on that feedback I rarely finish off downed characters. On the other hand I use the alternate rest rules, so getting even a short rest is a night of recovery. People think long and hard about taking a long rest if it lasts for a week.

I also think that proper enemy tactics can make a large difference in how encounters play out, but that's a separate topic. Short list for making the game deadlier:

• Use better tactics. Take advantage of cover and environment. For example small foes can use small tunnels with tiny openings that are too small for medium size creatures to go through.
• If fighting animal intelligence monsters, they're likely just looking for food. After a PC is knocked unconscious, take them off into the bushes to be eaten in quiet.
• Send waves. At higher levels wizards can do a lot of damage, so don't send all the foes at once.
• Flank. Related to sending in waves, have weaker foes run in from the obvious direction while the real foes come around the back
• Illusion. That BBEG? Well it's an illusion. The real BBEG is hiding around the corner. Note if a target isn't legitimate for a spell, I don't make the caster expend a spell slot. So if they try to banish the illusion it doesn't work but they also don't use the spell slot.
• Number of combats between rests. It really does help to have 6-8 encounters with only 1-2 short rests. I use the alternate rules where a short rest is overnight and a long rest is a week or more because it works better for my campaign pacing. But if you have multiple fights, the wizard is going to hold off on that meteor storm until it's really effective. We also frequently have multiple game sessions without a long rest - people do need to take notes of where the left off.
• Obstacles/goals other than killing stuff. Too often it's go there kill the bad guy. What if you have to instead save the prince? What if your could survive but the prince is squishy? How do you protect him.
• Use custom monsters. Follow the guide in the DMG to make new monsters, they're frequently much tougher than what's listed in the MM. Or depending on budget look at 3rd party books like Kobold Press's Tome of Monsters.

 

[MarkB]

But in a world with quick healing and magic... wouldn't tactics change?

How often will NPCs encounter such tactics? Most often, enemies are considered dead as soon as you drop them, and having combat healers along isn't particularly standard. It's only the PCs who get to make death saves.

 

[overgeeked]

So this just came up in another thread but I've seen the sentiment that 5e combat is too easy bandied about by quite a few on this site and I'm just curious how many think combat is or isn't too deadly and whether they finish off downed characters by attacking them when unconscious. I'm interested in the various reasoning for why one does or doesn't attack unconscious characters but I am especially interested in the thoughts of those that feel 5e combat is too easy but don't finish off downed characters and why that is.

The trouble with these things is that the forum (any forum) is a subset of a subset of a subset of the D&D player population and there’s no way to stop players from flooding a poll meant for DMs.

 

[TheSword]

I think attacking downed player characters is a good thing to do if the rest of the party are making themselves unreachable leaving one Pc to tank. The dire troll the party were attacking on Wednesday attacked a downed Pc because one of the other PCs hid in a narrow space and the other flew into the air with magic. No person left behind.

 

[Imaro]

How often will NPCs encounter such tactics? Most often, enemies are considered dead as soon as you drop them, and having combat healers along isn't particularly standard. It's only the PCs who get to make death saves.

I would assume combatants in general would know about clerics, druids, healing magic, etc. Maybe not your run of the mill commoner but those who are battle experienced definitely would know of these things even if they hadn't experienced them directly. Animals on the other hand are looking for food and would probably start eating or pull away a downed character unless someone or something else attacks them...

 

[Oofta]

How often will NPCs encounter such tactics? Most often, enemies are considered dead as soon as you drop them, and having combat healers along isn't particularly standard. It's only the PCs who get to make death saves.

It depends on the campaign setting. Forgotten Realms for example seems to assume you're bumping into a caster every time you turn around. In a world like that, magic is fairly commonplace and I think most people would know about magical healing even if they haven't seen it directly.

As a group gets higher level, they're more and more likely to have encountered magic in most settings.

 

[Nefermandias]

I did solve it - because I stopped playing 5e and now play PF2e where I don't have that problem.

Cool.

 

[Helpful NPC Thom]

I think 5e combat is incredibly boring with how non-lethal it is outside of low levels, and I'm looking forward to the monster redesigns come 2024. If I had my druthers, monsters would die faster and hit harder.

 

[Stalker0]

But in a world with quick healing and magic... wouldn't tactics change? Anyway, not trying to argue against how you run your game just thinking if combat isn't deadly enough but there are tools to make it so... why not use them?

I think context is important here. Is quick healing actually plentiful? If you go with the notion that PCs are rare special creatures, then no most groups wouldn’t have access to such tools. Even if you recognize a “holy man” in the group, are they actually a spell caster?

now let’s say the cleric casts a healing spell, so we know that is an option. Changing tactics like that requires a certain amount of rigor…lowering your eyes against an enemy trying to kill you to stop an enemy that is not requires a certain amount of thinking that goes beyond what most people train for.

so in a nutshell, it’s narratively reasonable that enemies would not attempt to coup de grace in combat even with healing present. It’s also reasonable if you did decide they would do it in that kind of world. Aka both options are narratively reasonable