D&D 5E Counterspell nerfed!

J.Quondam

CR 1/8
The stated goal was to move combat spells to ations. So, yes, anything that they will primary be using in combat now isn't a spell for things like Mage Slayer feat, Oath of Ancient's aura, and even if the DM rules it a spell, they also need to determine level for things like Counterspell or Globe of Invulnerability.
I don't know about "stated goals" or whatnot, but the warpriest statblock floating around has combat spells in the spell list, eg flamestrike and hold person, as I recall. It's new magic ability it is lower damage, and occurs alongside melee attacks.
1nFCAVj.png
I'm not sure, maybe that's not a real image? Is this statblock not representative of the direction designers will be taking in the updated MM coming out?
 

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J.Quondam

CR 1/8
Personally I have had a quick look at the statblocks in Wild Beyond.
I don't have Witchlight, so I've got a question:
Do the new statblocks also contain (combat) spell lists for casters, in addition to these new powers? Or have all combat spells really been converted to these powers?
 


doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
"You doing what you want, prevents me from doing what I want."

Why should I care, in a head to head 'competitive' game, if my opponent gets to implement their plan?
There is a difference between foiling an opponent's plan, and a game allowing one player to completely bar the other player from engaging with the game at all.
I can go deep on this if you like, but it's probably off topic as it would be MTG focused.

TLDR: Action, and Reaction, is critical to provide player agency and choice. A resource driven game requires this even more.
Action and Reaction doesn't require negation of one side of an entire match.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
I really disagree. Anything designed to prevent your opponent from enjoying the game is poor design, imo.
110%

Negation decks aren't just designed to stop the opponent from winning or being effective, they completely lock the other player out of playing the game, and part of the strategy is to specifically make the game un-fun for the opponent.
 

UngainlyTitan

Legend
Supporter
I don't have Witchlight, so I've got a question:
Do the new statblocks also contain (combat) spell lists for casters, in addition to these new powers? Or have all combat spells really been converted to these powers?
It looks like damage dealing is from the new powers. Spells that could be used against the party include stuff like Banishment, Hold Person.
Some have item spells.
 


Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
If you like to use something, be it a weapon or a spell, against your opponents, is it not fair game to use against you? Does it cause problems if it is used in that way? Or should your side be the only ones able to do that to your opponents?

There's a lot here that depends on how you like to play. For some gamers, the level playing field is fine - you live by the counterspell, you die by the counterspell. It's part of the fun of the game.

But there are other gamers who really don't like to be stymied by anything - obstacles like this are frustrating and not fun. And I think that comes up in quite a few threads around here ranging from not liking being dominated/charmed/held, or not liking wasting turns trying to set up a powerful combination, or wasting turns not affecting their target.

I think the game has changed a lot over the editions to keep this style of player happy compared to earlier editions, hence some players claiming the game is easy mode. I don't agree with the easy mode assessment and appreciate many of the efforts made to make the game interesting without making taking a player completely out of the action due to a single bad die roll or two (now, a string of bad rolls can still be frustrating, but I'm OK with that because that's frustration at my luck, not some unfair rule). But there's only so far I'm really willing to entertain these concerns before my eyes start rolling. It's a game - sometimes you won't be on the winning side. Sometimes you'll get beat or take a beating. Some opponents are going to be particularly frustrating just as others will be easy or tailor made for you to beat up on them. If you're getting too many of the former because the DM has some idea in his or her head that you have to be CHALLENGED!!1! 24/7, 365.25 days a year, then maybe tell them to lay off a bit or you'll find another game because they don't know squat about good pacing.
My issue is with the ease of counter spelling, not its existence (although I'd be fine if it didn't exist). There's no roll the vast majority of the time; it just happens, and one of your very few turns of action is wasted. As has been mentioned above, make it always take an opposed roll, or have there be some compensation for having your turn be cancelled, and it would be fine.
 


Mort

Legend
Supporter
My issue is with the ease of counter spelling, not its existence (although I'd be fine if it didn't exist). There's no roll the vast majority of the time; it just happens, and one of your very few turns of action is wasted. As has been mentioned above, make it always take an opposed roll, or have there be some compensation for having your turn be cancelled, and it would be fine.

Play it that the caster doesn't know what he's counterspelling and this mostly goes away. Counterspelling takes on a (IMO) sufficient level of risk at that point (since you also don't know the level of the incoming spell).

Granted, this requires a bit of trust when the caster is an NPC the DM is controlling - but it still works.
 

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