D&D 5E How do you hope WotC treats the upcoming classic settings?

[Faolyn]

I don't think, if they make Dark Sun, that they should include the full Spelljammer Treatment with invaders from Eberron or another setting. It would skew things really hard, and honestly any Spelljamming Magic User would just start Defiling the crap out of everything and not understand -why-... at least not at first.

Well, traditionally Dark Sun was always a closed sphere that couldn't be accessed from other planes. I'm pretty sure they'd keep that aspect, even if they went full Planejammer and ditched the spheres altogether.

 

[Micah Sweet]

So, I'm in my 40s, have been playing since 2e, and my absolute favorite setting is and has always been Ravenloft. As you probably know, they updated Ravenloft for modern sensibilities and a ton of history got rewritten in the process.

And the writers did, in my opinion, a pretty good job of it. And even if I hadn't like the majority of the changes--and no, there's a couple that make me go "why?"--I'm glad that the setting was updated. Why? Partly because it was old and therefore used many outdated and at best cringeworthy concepts. And partly because I'm not the only person who plays Ravenloft. There are kids and adults in their twenties who will buy Van Richten's Guide. Why force them to read through stuff that hasn't been acceptable since the 80s and 90s (and really, shouldn't have been acceptable then) just because it's what you're used to.

I have to ask, as a classic Ravenloft fan from the fan from the 90's, what did you actually like about it that is still there now? Huge swaths of the setting havery either been erased or changed in large ways, and its literary foundations exemplify the problematic elements so many people have a problem with now. Do you just like horror roleplaying in general, or were you fond of the "weekend in hell" style from before it was a setting? I legit dont get it.

 

[Scribe]

Tasslehoff. Burrfoot.

What of him? Poor guy gets so much flack...that opening scene where he steals Flints dagger sets the tone so well.

Yeah, you had Kitiara and her lover Tanis Half-Elven dealing with being on opposite sides of a war and the relationships that come out of that. Yes you have Flint dying and leaving the Heroes of the Lance undwarfed which broke Tasslehoff's heart...

And the Twins, and Raists whole arc through both trilogies, and Sturm, and the Elves racism, and the whole background of the gods absence, the whole basis of the setting.

Could you shift the tone and market for kids? Absolutely. GW has books for kids now...

Should they? I don't think so.

Strixhaven is a campaign setting whether you like it or not, and Sigil connects to it because it must

Yes, Sigil is connected to all things.

They don't need to mention a MTG setting though.

Keep it to the planes, and the actual D&D Prime Material.

I hate crossover stuff, just cheapens it all to me, shrinks a setting down.

 

[Steampunkette]

What of him? Poor guy gets so much flack...that opening scene where he steals Flints dagger sets the tone so well.

His name is practically -designed- to trigger little kids linguistic serotonin button. His name is in Iambic Pentameter. His last name is, in fact, a Trochee, just like Fizban's name.

And the Twins, and Raists whole arc through both trilogies, and Sturm, and the Elves racism, and the whole background of the gods absence, the whole basis of the setting.

Could you shift the tone and market for kids? Absolutely. GW has books for kids now...

Should they? I don't think so.

Wait... -I- see the problem, here.

I don't think they should shift the tone. I think they should market the setting to kids. The setting -as it exists- is incredibly kid-friendly.

Yeah, there's bad stuff in the setting. That's important to set the right tone. But the overall tone? 100% Kid Friendly.

I would -happily- hand Dragons of Autumn Twilight to an 8 year old. It's how old I was when I read it.

Like still write the children's book about a girl finding a dragon and going all "How to Train Your Dragon" and stuff. Make it hit harder by having the dragon be a Blue or a Green and the kid grow up to be a Dragonlord.

But the setting itself? Just hand it to young D&D players as their intro to the game. They don't -have- to play Sturm or Kitiara or Flint.

They play in the world of the War of the Lance, with black and white morality by and large, easily identified good and evil dragons, and things like that.

Yes, Sigil is connected to all things.

They don't need to mention a MTG setting though.

Keep it to the planes, and the actual D&D Prime Material.

I hate crossover stuff, just cheapens it all to me, shrinks a setting down.

Eh.

Whether they mention it or not, it'll still be canonically connected.

And we all have to live with that -dirty- feeling...

Or not, for those of us who don't feel it.

 

[tetrasodium]

Ohhh... Yeah. Now I get ya. You're going Spelljammery out of the gate! I misunderstood.

And nope. Not looking for "Kick the dog" "Grimdark". Just looking to have the Gith do a different thing than Black Spine as it was while still keying into the old adventure path to change things around. Rather than it being a fresh invasion force you're running toward thanks to Nibenay's mistakes, it's the crappy Gith of Athas trying desperately to claw and scrape their way off the planet by finding the way they came to Athas in the first place while a handful of "Noble Gith" lord over them. Think Skeksis, with the trappings of their once-powerful empire hanging as rags off their bony forms commanding literally degenerate gith to dig and tunnel to find the MacGuffin of Destiny!

I think the Rajaat storyline needs to be blasted from Orbit for this version of the setting. A complete revamp. In large part because the actual cool element of the setting was that there were mysteries everywhere, with answers left up to the DM in most cases, or reduced to shrugs when there was no clear "This is what really happened" provided.

I don't think, if they make Dark Sun, that they should include the full Spelljammer Treatment with invaders from Eberron or another setting. It would skew things really hard, and honestly any Spelljamming Magic User would just start Defiling the crap out of everything and not understand -why-... at least not at first.

Best to revamp what exists, change it, make it new while still touching on what came before, I think.

A colonial power doesn't need to "invade" Athas, if they have the capability to do so it would be brain dead levels of stupid to invade it over almost literally any other sphere. All they need is a bunch f maybe not so ethical or possibly risky things they aren't allowed to do back home & their motives become being left alone in a quiet corner but occasionally providing hush supplies to the real powers that be. Under those circumstances they wouldn't want to rule it any more than Oppenheimer wanted to rule any of these places. They would have every reason to limit their support of the SKs to things normally classified as humanitarian aid (ie food/water/etc) because arming the SKs with anything that might allow them to take over to escape the sphere to the one they came from would be obviously suicidal given even the barest cursory hint of a glance at Athas & it's history.

Khyber is still Eberron’s version of the Underdark. They are both dark underground places full of massive tunnels and creepy monsters, and weird magic. Khyber could also be described as the Underdark +. As it also has traits of the Abyss and Hell.
Also what FR lore and baggage was forced?

thank you for making my point about why darksun & every other non-fr/gh clone would only made worse by suggesting the similarity with a thing so deeply linked to FR's lore. You literally named one plane & effectively referenced a second one that are not part of eberron's cosmology both of which require a very different spin on alignment to describe khyber. It's the sort of innocent question that forces a long "what khyber is not" tangent rather than "here's what khyber is" simple description

 

[ersatzphil]

I love that because it offers a chance to explore something wrong in the "the space between worlds", and that blending of voyage fantasy, weird fantasy, and Lovecraftian fantasy could really hit a sweet spot. It brings a twist to what I'd expect with Spelljammer having a more swashbuckling theme.

I've been letting this percolate in my head for a bit, and I'm reminded of how Dan OBannon, the screenwriter for the movie 'Alien' described his film - he said if HP Lovecraft's stories were about finding ancient evils from beyond the stars here on earth, that this movie was about going out beyond the stars and encountering the ancient evils on their home turf.

Frankly if what they announce isn't a D&D adventure along those lines, I'm giving serious thought to writing it myself.

 

[pming]

Hiya!

Wow. Lots of replies. Huh...

I'll sum up: "Ok...but I still disagree for a variety of reasons I can't go into here on these limited forums, and I don't have hours to reply. Sorry".

Others may see a 'need' to "update" Greyhawk. I don't. I love Greyhawk just the way it is and hope it stays that way. I'm primarily against updating ANY previous writing/book of fiction simply for the fact that something(s) in it may rub people the wrong way now. I'd much rather see all new works of art written and created that reflects whatever the writer wanted to put in it I guess.

Why can't we, as a general society, just leave 'history' alone and create new stuff? Why? Is this simply a capability we are slowly loosing?

^_^

Paul L. Ming

 

[pming]

So, I'm in my 40s, have been playing since 2e, and my absolute favorite setting is and has always been Ravenloft. As you probably know, they updated Ravenloft for modern sensibilities and a ton of history got rewritten in the process.

And the writers did, in my opinion, a pretty good job of it. And even if I hadn't like the majority of the changes--and no, there's a couple that make me go "why?"--I'm glad that the setting was updated. Why? Partly because it was old and therefore used many outdated and at best cringeworthy concepts. And partly because I'm not the only person who plays Ravenloft. There are kids and adults in their twenties who will buy Van Richten's Guide. Why force them to read through stuff that hasn't been acceptable since the 80s and 90s (and really, shouldn't have been acceptable then) just because it's what you're used to.

Quick Post:
Faolyn, could you PM me something specific you're thinking about? I'm an old fart too (soon to be 52) and am wracking my brain trying to find or remember something that would fit the "not acceptable" criteria.

^_^

Paul L. Ming

 

[Faolyn]

I have to ask, as a classic Ravenloft fan from the fan from the 90's, what did you actually like about it that is still there now? Huge swaths of the setting havery either been erased or changed in large ways, and its literary foundations exemplify the problematic elements so many people have a problem with now. Do you just like horror roleplaying in general, or were you fond of the "weekend in hell" style from before it was a setting? I legit dont get it.

So far Ravenloft is the only horror-specific setting I've run (although I find horror eventually creeps into anything I run), and I've rarely had the opportunity to even play in a horror game. I've never run "weekend in hell" Ravenloft and I've always had the default for the players that they are native to one of the domains (although they can choose to be an outlander if hey wish).

But anyway, for the most part, it doesn't really matter to me that VGR rewrote a bunch of earlier Ravenloft canon. A lot of the new stuff is cool, so I combine it with what's I liked from the earlier editions. And I think that they kept the themes for the domains pretty well, even if the particulars are often different. Like, Borca and Dementlieu are still sufficiently decadent, and it's still limited to the upper class for Borca and Dementlieu is still beset by rumor, scandal, and lies. OK, Ivan isn't going to be pretending to be a Totally Normal Person until he whisks you away to his Joker-esque Funhouse of Doom anymore, but he's a different type of really creepy, and I like that. I like that Ivana is actively involved in alchemy and business instead of just pining after men now. I'm glad that rapey darklords like Dominic got replaced. Valachan is a bit weird now, what with the displacer beasts, but it was always weird and was always hunt-based.

I even like the idea that every domain is an island. It allows me a bit more freedom to move people around more (I always felt having the Mists come and snatch people away was a bit much; here, people can choose to leave the map and go elsewhere), and I have already decided that there are Mistway roads that can be taken to travel mostly safely from one domain to the next in an orderly fashion (as long as you don't leave the road, of course!), thus allowing for a modicum of trade and travel.

Honestly, the only bits I really wish they had included from before were a fleshed-out Vechor, Shadow Rift, Nidala, and the various religions. (Yes, I know that the Rift and Nidala are mentioned, but only in passing.)

 

[overgeeked]

Why can't we, as a general society, just leave 'history' alone and create new stuff? Why? Is this simply a capability we are slowly loosing?

I wasn't aware that WotC went to every fans house, rounded up every copy of the older material, and burned it all. Last I checked I still have shelves full of the stuff. History is still there. Adding to or updating D&D settings for new fans isn't losing our history. All the old printed stuff is still there. Most of it is still available as PDFs from the DMs Guild. We're losing nothing. We're gaining something.