Level Up (A5E) Feats, Feats, & More Feats!

[Stalker0]

I disagree, but of course I didn't reply to your comment. I mean PF2 is built completely on the idea of everything (almost) is a class feat and it works great. Personally I don't care for multiclass feats because we don't use multiclassing, so they are waste for us. But that doesn't make them a bad idea.

As I have repeatedly looked at the endless array of PF1 feats…each more niche than the last, I can respect the concern.

5e feats are based on general flexibility. Most of them (the good ones anyway) combine several niche abilities with minimal prerequisites to create widely usable feats. That was a distinctive design choice. It is easy design wise to start making specific feats, to create niche abilities…but that leads to more and more pages of mechanics fewer and fewer players can use. The harder but more rewarding path to me is to stay in the more general sphere.

Now a feat that requires multiclassing I can respect. Multiclassing is an odd duck, especially mixing casters and martial. So feats in that realm as a portion of the total package seem fine to me. After all LU is intended to add crunch in areas that O5e doesn’t always cover.

that said, I agree with others that the specific classes here seem an unnecessary straight jacket, an attempt to tie a “very specific flavor” to these mechanics, and I do think that’s a concern.

what is wrong with a barb/sorcerer having this option? Now it’s int based so it’s probably not going to be all that great at it…but hey if your playing the weird smart and charismatic barb with magic power…enjoy your bonus!

 

[Morrus]

that said, I agree with others that the specific classes here seem an unnecessary straight jacket, an attempt to tie a “very specific flavor” to these mechanics, and I do think that’s a concern.

what is wrong with a barb/sorcerer having this option? Now it’s int based so it’s probably not going to be all that great at it…but hey if your playing the weird smart and charismatic barb with magic power…enjoy your bonus!

I can't speak for the designers who worked on this, but the idea IIRC was to very specifically mimic an existing legacy archetype. At least it's not limited to elves!

 

[Stalker0]

The other things I’ll note here. I don’t see these feats as representing “archetypes”, ala pathfinder 1 style which you got at 1st level. These come far too late for that.

this to me is more the “prestige class” concept, aka a goal your character grows into, or a special position with more specific power.

you could say it’s “tomato, tomato”, but PF set the tone to me of what an archetype means mechanically, just as 3e gave me a construct for prestige class….so just like when 4e tried to use saving throw in a different manner and creating a flavor oddity, it’s hard for me to see archetype as a high level thing

 

[Morrus]

The other things I’ll note here. I don’t see these feats as representing “archetypes”, ala pathfinder 1 style which you got at 1st level. These come far too late for that.

this to me is more the “prestige class” concept, aka a goal your character grows into, or a special position with more specific power

Sure, yeah. They are definitely in the same narrative niche as prestige classes were. I wasn't using the Pathfinder meaning of the word 'archetype', just the normal English meaning.

 

[Stalker0]

I will say this feat does have some meat! The int to AC is of course amazing, and basically casting a spell through your weapon every round is very solid.

but the second one is of course where things get nasty. Two saves getting a big buff, int to initiative…super buffs to all int and dex skills. Oh yeah and you get a nice defense thing!

 

[Stalker0]

So hilariously (assuming it hasn’t been changed), one of the best spells to use with this feat…fog cloud. I would probably do some cool flavor like “within this mist I lay my fears, my doubts, my uncertainties. My mind now lays clean…and I see the path”

It’s one of the few 1st concentration spells that can last an hour, so the most bladechant for your buck. Detect magic and expeditious retreat are shorter but generally more useful…and of course enhance ability at 2nd is likely to be very popular

 

[Horwath]

So hilariously (assuming it hasn’t been changed), one of the best spells to use with this feat…fog cloud. I would probably do some cool flavor like “within this mist I lay my fears, my doubts, my uncertainties. My mind now lays clean…and I see the path”

It’s one of the few 1st concentration spells that can last an hour, so the most bladechant for your buck. Detect magic and expeditious retreat are shorter but generally more useful…and of course enhance ability at 2nd is likely to be very popular

summon spells will get more popular

 

[tetrasodium]

I think it's to avoid the wild multiclass dipping you had in 3.5. The lack of ability scores requirements, combined with the basic mechanic of gaining +x on saves, bab and whatnot, allowed to create absurd but OP combinations (by dipping appropriately you could have far better saves than any other class without sacrificing too much).

Besides, it kinda makes sense that you shouldn't be a Wizard if your Int score is 8... There shouldn't be multiclass ability score requirements IMO, but class ability score requirements, like in 2E. The problem with this is that you may restrict too much the concept of a class, so you'd have to multiple alternative requirements, probably negating the point entirely.

th lack of ability score minimums for multiclassing in 3.5 wasn't the cause of that. Back in 3.5 you took a 20% exp penalty if your multic;ass levels were too far apart & you had problems because it was trivial to pick a race that exempted a problematic class from being a problem in a combo deliberately or accidentally just by minmaxing. The really overwhelming power came from PrC bingo not so much multiclassing

The ability score prerequisites in 5e are pointless because the standard array is too high for 13 in a stat to matter when a player starts with 15 14 13 12 10 8 with a +1 or +2 here and there. When 3/6 to 4/6 of a player's ability scores are guaranteed to be 13 or better it's not a very high bar needing to have a 13 to multiclass in or out of a class.

 

[dave2008]

As I have repeatedly looked at the endless array of PF1 feats…each more niche than the last, I can respect the concern.

Did you mean PF2? To be clear, a O5e/A5e feat is a very different thing from a 3e/PF1/PF2 feat, so I don't think it is the same level of concern.

what is wrong with a barb/sorcerer having this option? Now it’s int based so it’s probably not going to be all that great at it…but hey if your playing the weird smart and charismatic barb with magic power…enjoy your bonus!

I agree, I don't see any issue with idea.

 

[lichmaster]

th lack of ability score minimums for multiclassing in 3.5 wasn't the cause of that. Back in 3.5 you took a 20% exp penalty if your multic;ass levels were too far apart & you had problems because it was trivial to pick a race that exempted a problematic class from being a problem in a combo deliberately or accidentally just by minmaxing. The really overwhelming power came from PrC bingo not so much multiclassing

The ability score prerequisites in 5e are pointless because the standard array is too high for 13 in a stat to matter when a player starts with 15 14 13 12 10 8 with a +1 or +2 here and there. When 3/6 to 4/6 of a player's ability scores are guaranteed to be 13 or better it's not a very high bar needing to have a 13 to multiclass in or out of a class.

Not really: a Monk 1/Bard 1/Fighter1 has better saves than any 3rd level pure class, no penalty on exp and does not require any specific race, just as a quick example.

I agree that in 5e they're pointless for a single class, but still half of the basic scores do not allow you to multiclass