D&D 5E Respect Mah Authoritah: Thoughts on DM and Player Authority in 5e

[Maxperson]

Not a red herring, but you didn't say it.

That question was a distraction from the point. It has nothing to do with whether or not the DM has total authority.

I might argue with you take on DM authority. What is possible there really isn't what's the same as usual, or normal, or taken as the cost of doing business. DO you see the distinction I'm trying to make? I'm not talking about run of the mill call-making.

Once you start talking about the rules not having force you've dropped the ball. Of course the rules don't have force. What does have force is the social contract at the table, and that, my friend, normally doesn't include random and rampant rule changing.

Rules do have authority, but that authority stems from me. Anything I have not actively changed, I have passively agreed to let stand. The game very clearly says that, "...the rules aren't in charge. You're the DM, and you are in charge of the game."

 

[overgeeked]

Ahh, you're still talking about that one quote are you? Let me know if you aren't...

You mean the several paragraphs spread across the DMG and PHB specifically detailing the DM’s authority in D&D?

 

[niklinna]

Gee, It's too bad DMs don't have the authority to change all that stuff about them having total authority.

 

[Maxperson]

Gee, It's too bad DMs don't have the authority to change all that stuff about them having total authority.

Of course they do. The DM can cede authority to the game and/or the players if he chooses to. That's between him and his players, though. Short of the DM ceding that authority, he has it.

 

[hawkeyefan]

Literally no one is arguing that. It’s hawkeyefan’s strawman. Not an actual argument anyone has made.

Strawman? Let me retrace this exchange for you.

There was a discussion about how “players control their PCs and the GM controls everything else”. Someone then challenged that as the standard mode of play. Then in response, someone else posted a bit from the rules about how the GM gets to make the call on rules questions.

I commented about how those kinds of passages are more about the GM making decisions when there is doubt more so than about granting the GM total authority. These kinds of quotes tend to come up to justify a broader application of GM authority than should be expected.

I then said I think approaching the game with the idea that the GM has total authority is a bad one.

You then responded with what? More passages about how the GM has total authority.

I clarified I don’t really care if the rules can be interpreted that way. I am talking about what I think is a better approach to the game, and the kind of approach we actually see out in the wild…where the rules actually matter, not just what the GM wants.

So if you aren’t arguing that the GM has total authority, then how do you disagree with me? What strawman have I constructed? You responded to my post where I stated my opinion.

 

[Fenris-77]

You mean the several paragraphs spread across the DMG and PHB specifically detailing the DM’s authority in D&D?

Indeed! I've read those paragraphs and appreciate them. A little context, I have not once run 5E out-of-the-box as you might say. I'm an inveterate hacker and tinkerer with rules. However, that's also not precisely what I'm trying to get at. When I hack, tinker and otherwise make the rules my own I do outside of play sessions. When in play, my focus is always on consistency of rulings. I don't make random changes at a whim, or even not on a whim. The nature of the game doesn't really admit of that kind of capricious approach to the rules in play. So, here's my question, are you talking about hacking in general, or are you talking about some ultimate authority to do, essentially, whatever you like in-play as it occurs to you? Or perhaps something in between? I don't want put words in your mouth and I'd like to get granular here, if you don't mind.

 

[niklinna]

Of course they do. The DM can cede authority to the game and/or the players if he chooses to. That's between him and his players, though. Short of the DM ceding that authority, he has it.

Oh I left out the , sorry!

 

[hawkeyefan]

That question was a distraction from the point. It has nothing to do with whether or not the DM has total authority.

Rules do have authority, but that authority stems from me. Anything I have not actively changed, I have passively agreed to let stand. The game very clearly says that, "...the rules aren't in charge. You're the DM, and you are in charge of the game."

But total authority is a red herring?

I can’t even.

 

[Fenris-77]

But total authority is a red herring?

I can’t even.

Total authority, as characterized upstream is indeed a red herring. It doesn't exist.

 

[Maxperson]

But total authority is a red herring?

I can’t even.

You probably shouldn't, since nobody said that.