D&D 5E Respect Mah Authoritah: Thoughts on DM and Player Authority in 5e

[reelo]

...randomness shouldn't go in the way of a good story.

Sure. But once you brace the randomness, it can make the best stories.

 

[Maxperson]

I'm not insisting to do it, I'm just pointing out that it's not a capital crime when this happens. Having a zero level of tolerance for it is for me not the mark of a collaborative player, and therefore the mark of a bad player.

You have yet to show how abuse of power(railroading) is not the mark of a bad DM. The 5e DMG mentions railroading once, and in a bad context. Nothing in any of your quotes says that railroading is acceptable.

 

[Campbell]

From my perspective the expectation of collaboration is one thing. Insisting on the form that needs to take is another thing altogether.

 

[prabe]

From my perspective the expectation of collaboration is one thing. Insisting on the form that needs to take is another thing altogether.

If by "the form it ... take{s}" you mean "the outcome" I could. not. agree. more.

 

[loverdrive]

Yeah. It can be complex and complicated to leave a game, but that's not so much a matter of GM Authority as ... {waves hands} ... social stuff.

I'd say, these things generally correlate. Like, if the game master sees themselves as some kind of auteur or god or entertaining singing man, then they probably would take someone leaving personally.

 

[overgeeked]

And if a player can't be even a little bit understanding about the difficulty of a DM's job, and can't even abide that the DM might just be following a module, or is just a beginner, or lacking confidence, or is just running the game to please friends, or just thinks that overall, the game is going to be better for the majority, then they are bad players, they should go write and adventure and try being a DM, just to see what they are capable of.

Running a linear adventure is not the same thing as railroading. Railroading is the negation or elimination of player choice. That's it. Something like using mold earth to create a passage through rock that the DM wasn't expecting...say bypassing a door with an incredibly complex lock on it that leads to the big bad long before the party is "meant to". The DM just saying no. Yeah, that's bad DMing. If there's an actual reason behind it, some fictional element, sure. If it's just to protect the DM's precious adventure...it's bad DMing. Like the illusionism of the quantum ogre.

If the players agree to run through a module, you're good. If they don't and the DM insists, then the DM shouldn't be surprised when the players try to left turn their way out of the module. But the DM needs to be flexible and ready, willing, and able to account for the players doing things that are simply not covered by the module. Removing players control over their characters to force the game to go the way the DM wants is bad DMing, pure and simple. The DM controls literally everything else in the game. The players get one thing. Let them have that one thing. If the players don't even get that one thing, the DM should retire to become a novelist.

And yes, more players should try to spread their wings and give DMing a go. They'll learn a lot more about the game and maybe come to appreciate their DMs a bit more. Once players see how hard it is to do as a forever-player, they might calm down a bit and complain less about DMs.

Anyone know is we are we still sitting at around a 10:1 ratio of players to DMs? That's why a lot of DMs have the attitude that players are replaceable. It's also why there are paid DMs at the amateur/hobbyist level, but no paid players.

 

[loverdrive]

And if a player can't be even a little bit understanding about the difficulty of a DM's job, and can't even abide that the DM might just be following a module, or is just a beginner, or lacking confidence, or is just running the game to please friends, or just thinks that overall, the game is going to be better for the majority, then they are bad players, they should go write and adventure and try being a DM, just to see what they are capable of.

I'm not even a little bit understanding about the difficulty of a DM's job. Like, it's easy. Anyone who can play a role-playing game can run a role-playing game.

Pretending that runnin games is some kind of complex or difficult endeavour that only a few irreplaceable people can do is, uhm, delusion of grandeur, I'd say.

 

[prabe]

I'd say, these things generally correlate. Like, if the game master sees themselves as some kind of auteur or god or entertaining singing man, then they probably would take someone leaving personally.

Oh, sure.

I'm getting at the idea they may also be a friend, or at least an acquaintance, and the other people around the table may likewise be friends, and the game being a social thing probably complicates leaving more than the GM's attitudes. Especially if they want you to like what they're doing.

I've left two games in the last couple of years. One the big social problem was that I like/d the other players but didn't much care for the GM--or at least, for how he was running the game; that was relatively easy to ease out of. The other, I like everyone in the group immensely and the social thing was harder for me to get past in my own head; telling people I was leaving that game was harder than anything else, because the people were so awesome about it.

I dunno if my examples are clarifying or anything, but ... here we are.

 

[prabe]

I'm not even a little bit understanding about the difficulty of a DM's job. Like, it's easy. Anyone who can play a role-playing game can run a role-playing game.

Pretending that runnin games is some kind of complex or difficult endeavour that only a few irreplaceable people can do is, uhm, delusion of grandeur, I'd say.

I think it's easier for some people than it is for others. I think some people are better at it than others.

But: I agree talking up how hard it is isn't helpful.

 

[Helpful NPC Thom]

I don't think it was a person. We discussed campaigns before they began long before I ever heard of anything called session 0. The first time it came up online for me, I was like, "Hey! I already do that!"

It's similar to concepts like Let It Ride, Say Yes Or Roll the Dice, "fail forward," and so forth. Good GMs have already been doing those things for ages, but creating a term for it has made it into something of a meme.