D&D 5E A Lineage and Its Variants: The New Race Format Going Forward

[Crimson Longinus]

Given fictional worlds filled with stuff that blatantly defies the knowledge science has provided us, why insist on this one thing holding?

Sure, it doesn't need to. But this started by a person (incorrectly) applying a modern definition of species into fantasy context. If we say that: "This setting has several intelligent species, such as humans, elves, dragonborn and goblins," most people can understand what is meant just fine.

 

[Umbran]

Sure, it doesn't need to. But this started by a person (incorrectly) applying a modern definition of species into fantasy context. If we say that: "This setting has several intelligent species, such as humans, elves, dragonborn and goblins," most people can understand what is meant just fine.

Why not say, "This setting has several intelligent peoples...."? It is understandable, but removes the implied real-world-biology model that doesn't hold up under scrutiny.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Why not say, "This setting has several intelligent peoples...."? It is understandable, but removes the implied real-world-biology model that doesn't hold up under scrutiny.

Because it doesn't actually tell you what's going on. Like sure, if I say "humans, elves and dragonborn" you can conclude that these are actually different species as you're familiar with them, but if this was custom world, and I said "Oggs, Hyrrans and the Boobli" you wouldn't know if these were different species, or whether this was analogous to "French, Swedish and Chinese," cultures of one species.

 

[Vaalingrade]

You do plan to explain those later though, right? It's not going to be left a mystery to make a semantic point, right?

 

[Crimson Longinus]

You do plan to explain those later though, right? It's not going to be left a mystery to make a semantic point, right?

I'll get back to you after I have designed detailed lore for Oggs, Hyrrans and the Boobli, that I made up fifteen minutes ago.

 

[Helpful NPC Thom]

The argument that "genetics in D&D don't work like genetics in real life" is like saying "physics in D&D don't work like physics in real life," except they do. Presumably, a spark and kindling produce fire, fire and water produce steam, and steam and a teakettle produce a whistling that tells the British it's time for biscuits.

Certain expectations from the real world carry over into the game, and they inform and ground gameplay.

The implication of the D&D rules is that yes, genetics do work like real life, which is why half-elves and half-dragons and aasimar and tieflings and sorcerer bloodlines exist. The racial change is arbitrary and amounts to "a wizard did it" for explanation, which rightly rankles those who enjoy a marginally more cohesive fantasy world, those who enjoy the design aspect of racial ability scores, and those who enjoy keeping D&D's traditions alive.

It's not a dealbreaker for me, but sweeping discontent under the rug with "it's fantasy, it doesn't have to work like real life" is quite dismissive.

For those dissatisfied with the changes, I can only encourage you to take the chassis of D&D and customize it for your home games. Remove, alter, and add elements according to your preference. It's how Runequest started.

 

[Vaalingrade]

I'll get back to you after I have designed detailed lore for Oggs, Hyrrans and the Boobli, that I made up fifteen minutes ago.

That's... kind of the point isn't it?

Because if you did create all new peoples, you would then describe them in the work, thus clearing up any confusion.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

That's... kind of the point isn't it?

Because if you did create all new peoples, you would then describe them in the work, thus clearing up any confusion.

Sure. But point still stands that 'peoples' in usual parlance refers to cultures. So if we use it to refer to different species too, it is weird and potentially confusing. Are my character's 'peoples' humans or Cormyrians? In a world where different intelligent species actually exist, they absolutely would have clear terminology for this.

 

[Composer99]

@Lyxen, @Yaarel quoted the WotC Gothic Lineages Unearthed Arcana in a post on the first page of this thread.

The pertinent paragraph is

Finally, going forward, the term “race” in D&D refers only to the suite of game features used by player characters. Said features don’t have any bearing on monsters and NPCs who are members of the same species or lineage, since monsters and NPCs in D&D don’t rely on race or class to function. [Emphasis added by Yaarel.]

which states outright that monsters belong to a species or lineage (otherwise they couldn't belong to the "same species or lineage" as player characters).

It... doesn't make sense to insist that people can't show you "a monster that has a lineage" when there is WotC documentation that explicitly states monsters and NPCs are members of a species or lineage.

Perhaps it's the case that no monster or NPC stat block refers to the term "lineage" as of yet (and might never do so explicitly), but... there it is in black and white: monsters and NPCs are members of a species or lineage. If a monster stat block as "orc" in the name, are we really supposed to assume it's not the same lineage as a player character orc (or in the same family of orc lineages if there are many to choose from)?

(I suppose you could argue that "same species or lineage" isn't meant to refer to the species or lineage of player characters, but the sentence IMO parses better if it is meant to refer to PC species or lineage, what with the follow-on reference to monsters and NPCs not needing to "rely on race or class to function." But even then, monsters and NPCs are pretty clearly members of a species or lineage.)

Finally, lest you refer to the fact that the UA is a playtest document and its contents are therefore provisional, I should note that the text quoted comes from a 'Design Notes' sidebar (single-quotes used to differentiate using quote marks for definitional purposes versus actual quoting of other text), a peek behind the design intent curtain rather than regular playtest content.

 

[Dausuul]

The implication of the D&D rules is that yes, genetics do work like real life, which is why half-elves and half-dragons and aasimar and tieflings and sorcerer bloodlines exist.

I believe that is the first time I've seen half-dragons advanced as an example of genetics working like real life*.

*I mean, okay, granted, a dragon is a fictional creature; it is theoretically conceivable that its DNA could be compatible with human DNA. But in the real world, one would not generally expect a six-limbed, scaled, multi-ton, egg-laying species to interbreed successfully with humans.