D&D 5E Respect Mah Authoritah: Thoughts on DM and Player Authority in 5e

[Ovinomancer]

I really don't think most of these are metacurrencies. For example, I would assume that the caster is actually aware how many spells and how powerful they're able to cast and they're aware of the causal effects these spells have. This is not metacurrency. If the characters could more or less accurately discuss the thing in character (perhaps not using the exact mechanical terms) then it is not metacurrency. granted, some of these are weirder, like battlemaster manoeuvres. It would feel a bit weird that the character would know how many of these they could pull off. Though this is more to do with we having intuitive understanding that this is not how this would work in real world, whereas we have no such assumptions in magic.

OOH! Do hitpoints next! What does the discussion of how many hitpoints a character has look in fiction?

 

[Crimson Longinus]

In reading @hawkeyefan's account of the unshootable hag, I don't get any sense that there was an established fiction about the hag's cover, from which it followed that she couldn't be shot. It sounds much more like the GM had decided that the hag was going to escape, and then authored backstory and tried to disapply rules in order to justify that result.

Yes, scrambling to come up with the reason why the hag couldn't be shot indeed makes it sound like that. But the inability to shoot in itself wasn't unreasonable. What would have been revealing would have been what had happened if the characters had tried to pursue the hag.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

OOH! Do hitpoints next! What does the discussion of how many hitpoints a character have look in fiction?

At least in my game it is pretty easy. You're literally injured when you lose hit points. So a character who is missing most of their hit points knows that they're not doing so great, and pursuing further confrontations would be very risky.

 

[Ovinomancer]

In reading @hawkeyefan's account of the unshootable hag, I don't get any sense that there was an established fiction about the hag's cover, from which it followed that she couldn't be shot. It sounds much more like the GM had decided that the hag was going to escape, and then authored backstory and tried to disapply rules in order to justify that result.

This is possible, but @hawkeyefan will need to weigh in on what swimming away through the swamp water means -- if the hag was described as submerged initially, then I don't think your analysis is preferable to one where the GM was just presenting the nos in order of their grasp of the fiction. To that, I can see the GM thinking the hag's last move would get them far away, but this was countered by the player. Then the inability to detect the underwater hag seems reasonable, but again the player has a counter. Finally, the ability to shoot into water is used, but this seems reasonable. Had the GM initially considered and realized the first two objections were countered by player abilities (not that easy in 5e with so many possible and the already large GM overhead), then they could have deployed this final step first and the issue would not have felt the same. As I look, I'm don't see the GM creating new fiction to thwart the player -- that seems to have been done well to start. It's the walkthrough and repeated nos that feel off here.

 

[FrozenNorth]

Or they will stay and suffer through the experience because the DM and the rest of the group are close friends. Or no one else wants to run the game. Or there are no other DMs and this is the only D&D group they can find. Or maybe D&D is not a democracy at all and this is simply a poor analogy to make?

I have no stake in this particular discussion, but a lot of the things you bring up also apply to living in a democracy: people stay because their friends and family are there (and leaving may not beca realistic option). They may feel that none of the good people they know want to run for government, and thus vote for the least bad option.

 

[Ovinomancer]

At least in my game it is pretty easy. You're literally injured when you lose hit points. So a character who is missing most of their hit points knows that they're not doing so great, and pursuing further confrontations would be very risky.

Okay. I have character A who has a nasty gash across their chest from a monster claw and character B who has a scratch on the arm from the same monster. How many hitpoints did they both lose?

 

[Ovinomancer]

I have no stake in this particular discussion, but a lot of the things you bring up also apply to living in a democracy: people stay because their friends and family are there (and leaving may not beca realistic option). They may feel that none of the good people they know want to run for government, and thus vote for the least bad option.

GMs are the least bad option from a list of bad options. Interesting take....

 

[pemerton]

This is possible, but @hawkeyefan will need to weigh in on what swimming away through the swamp water means -- if the hag was described as submerged initially, then I don't think your analysis is preferable to one where the GM was just presenting the nos in order of their grasp of the fiction. To that, I can see the GM thinking the hag's last move would get them far away, but this was countered by the player. Then the inability to detect the underwater hag seems reasonable, but again the player has a counter. Finally, the ability to shoot into water is used, but this seems reasonable. Had the GM initially considered and realized the first two objections were countered by player abilities (not that easy in 5e with so many possible and the already large GM overhead), then they could have deployed this final step first and the issue would not have felt the same. As I look, I'm don't see the GM creating new fiction to thwart the player -- that seems to have been done well to start. It's the walkthrough and repeated nos that feel off here.

Perhaps - I can see what you're saying. I do wonder about the pre-established depth of the water and how the cover was established.

The line between an established (pre-authored) fiction which allows the hag to avoid being shot as per the rules, and a pre-authored fiction of the hag escaping, which then gets fleshed out with the necessary fictional details, is maybe quite a fine one.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Here's a reasonable test: if you run the same game for different players/characters, will the results be similar? In many 5e games, the answer to this is yes. Certainly for any of the published adventures.

I don't understand why you would use readymade modules as a point of comparison. Of course they're pretty linear!

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Okay. I have character A who has a nasty gash across their chest from a monster claw and character B who has a scratch on the arm from the same monster. How many hitpoints did they both lose?

Former has lost a larger percentage of their hit points.