Pathfinder 2E Paizo drops use of the word phylactery

[Kaodi]

I would venture "animarch" which could be seen as splitting the difference between "anima ark" and "arch anima" in the sense of the lich using a masterful refined process for containing their soul.

 

[TheSword]

If you're not going to engage with the culture behind the word, what reason are you using it for other than exoticism? You don't need to be offended to know when something is lazy and probably shouldn't be done.

I'm still waiting for someone to give me an affirmative defense as to why it needs to remain "phylactery" that doesn't involve "It's always been like this" or a slippery slope argument.

It seems to me to be the perfect word.

An ancient word for an item associated with magical script, charms and protection.

A different question might be, why did someone think it was a good idea to translate Teflin into a Greek word meaning charm or amulet instead of just calling it a Teflin. As a Jewish respondent said on the matter. All Teflin might be phylacteries but not all phylacteries are Teflin.

 

[Cadence]

A different question might be, why did someone think it was a good idea to translate Teflin into a Greek word meaning charm or amulet instead of just calling it a Teflin. As a Jewish respondent said on the matter. All Teflin might be phylacteries but not all phylacteries are Teflin.

It goes back to Wycliffe and his translation of the bible into Middle English in the OED. I haven't looked at where he was translating from.

 

[TheSword]

It goes back to Wycliffe and his translation of the bible into Middle English in the OED. I haven't looked at where he was translating from.

I don’t believe the word Teflin, or phylactery is mentioned in the Bible. Just alluded to.

 

[Cadence]

I don’t believe the word Teflin, or phylactery is mentioned in the Bible. Just alluded to.

Matthew 23:5

c1384 Bible (Wycliffite, E.V.) (Douce 369(2)) Matt. xxiii. 5 Thei don alle her werkis, that thei be seen of men; forsothe thei alargen her filateries, that ben smale scrowis.

NIV - 5 “Everything they do is done for people to see: They make their phylacteries[a] wide and the tassels on their garments long;

 

[Jfdlsjfd]

A different question might be, why did someone think it was a good idea to translate Teflin into a Greek word meaning charm or amulet instead of just calling it a Teflin. As a Jewish respondent said on the matter. All Teflin might be phylacteries but not all phylacteries are Teflin.

I suppose it wasn't a translation per se but an approximation. You had a Greek-speaking person writing a letter saying "Dear friends, I live in Palestine, the people here are very strange, they don't worship Apollo or Zeus, but a god whose name has no wovel, and to pray it, they wear protective amulets instead of sacrificing oxens. It's really exotic! I enclose a protective amulet as a souvenir. The food is good and so is the climate, lots of love". It's possible the writer never knew the Hebrew word in the first place (or see no point in mentionning it to his audience, because who care about barbaric languages when they can speak a real, proper language?).

Or among the first christian converts among the Greek. "What did Jesus say about the old alliance?" "that it is cancelled, we can eat pork and not cut..." "ah ok, then I convert, cool" "ah and you don't need to wear tefillin". "what's tefillin?" "don't worry, it's a jewish phylactery, you don't need to use it". Just greek-ing the tefillin word would have achieved nothing to enhance to communication of the idea.

And after that all Greek-speaking authors used the word phylactery for it.


As Cadence mentionned, there is very few mentions of the word in written sources between contemporary sources and the middle ages translations of the bible using it, and from Greek to Latin to English it was more a translitteration of the Greek term.

While I can't vouch for the research level of this site, I found it interesting: Probing the Earliest Origins of Tefillin (phylacteries) Part I

This theory is also apparently alluded to by Prof. Saul Lieberman in his Hellenism in Jewish Palestine, p. 108, n. 50:

A very interesting illustration of similarity of the attitude on the part of the Jews and the Greeks towards the Scripture and the books of Homer respectively is avaialable in the ancient Jewish sources. The Jewish rule is that the king must always wear the Scroll of the Torah on his person (see Deut. 17:19), TB Sanhedrin 21B and 22A). remarks to this effect: אותה שיוצאה ונכנסת עמו עושה אותה כמין קמיע ותולה בזרועו “that scroll which is to go in and out with him he shall make in the form of an amulet and fasten it to his arm”. This is exactly what the Roman Emperor Julian reports about his treatment of Homer and Plato (Letters to his uncle Julian, ed. Bidez, No. 80) ” and these (i.e. Homer and Plato) are like amulets and talismans, for they are always fastened one me.” Comp. also Plut. Alex. VIII and the spurious letter ascribed to Julian (Sp.383a, Bidez No. 190).

Perhaps an even earlier (Egyptian) Influence?


Jamieson, Fausset and Brown, in Commentary on the Old and New Testaments, page 638, regarding Exodus 13:9 –

“and frontlets between their eyes – for bands or fillets, particularly strips of parchment, containing sentences from the Mosaic law, which the Israelites wound round the forehead. Perhaps Moses meant the metaphorical language in the eighth verse to be taken in the same sense also. But as the Israelites interpreted it literally many writers suppose that a reference was made to a superstitious custom borrowed from the Egyptians, who wore jewels and ornamental trinkets on the forehead and arm, inscribed with certain words and sentences, as amulets to protect them from danger. These, it has been conjectured, Moses intended to supersede by substituting sentences of the law and so the Hebrews understood him, for they have always considered the wearing of the Tephilim, or frontlets, a permanent obligation.”

So for a Greek-educated observer, the practice of wearing Tefillin was very close of their own practice with protective amulets and they didn't differentiate it when writing about them.

 

[TheSword]

I suppose it wasn't a translation per se but an approximation. You had a Greek-speaking person writing a letter saying "Dear friends, I live in Palestine, the people here are very strange, they don't worship Apollo or Zeus, but a god whose name has no wovel, and to pray it, they wear protective amulets instead of sacrificing oxens. It's really exotic! I enclose a protective amulet as a souvenir. The food is good and so is the climate, lots of love". It's possible the writer never knew the Hebrew word in the first place (or see no point in mentionning it to his audience, because who care about barbaric languages when they can speak a real, proper language?).

Or among the first christian converts among the Greek. "What did Jesus say about the old alliance?" "that it is cancelled, we can eat pork and not cut..." "ah ok, then I convert, cool" "ah and you don't need to wear tefillin". "what's tefillin?" "don't worry, it's a jewish phylactery, you don't need to use it". Just greek-ing the tefillin word would have achieved nothing to enhance to communication of the idea.

And after that all Greek-speaking authors used the word phylactery for it.


As Cadence mentionned, there is very few mentions of the word in written sources between contemporary sources and the middle ages translations of the bible using it, and from Greek to Latin to English it was more a translitteration of the Greek term.

While I can't vouch for the research level of this site, I found it interesting: Probing the Earliest Origins of Tefillin (phylacteries) Part I



So for a Greek-educated observer, the practice of wearing Tefillin was very close of their own practice with protective amulets and they didn't differentiate it when writing about them.

I think that’s my point. We’re quibbling over words chosen when the words themselves are only approximations. The word itself is a translation. Plucked from the air. It seems strange then to invest the word phylactery with the kind of association that using out of the typical context causes offense.

In other words if we took the Tallit and invested the same significance the word shawl that we’re investing in phylactery then Robert Jordan would be in all kinds of trouble.

I think it’s a good thing to give freedom of language the benefit of the doubt in all but egregious cases.

 

[Sepulchrave II]

I think that’s my point. We’re quibbling over words chosen when the words themselves are only approximations. The word itself is a translation. Plucked from the air. It seems strange then to invest the word phylactery with the kind of association that using out of the typical context causes offense.

Matthew 23:5

πάντα δὲ τὰ ἔργα αὐτῶν ποιοῦσιν πρὸς τὸ θεαθῆναι τοῖς ἀνθρώποις· πλατύνουσιν γὰρ τὰ φυλακτήρια αὐτῶν καὶ μεγαλύνουσιν τὰ κράσπεδα,

Do you understand that the Levant was Hellenized from 332BCE?
Do you understand the impact of Middle Platonism on Second Temple Judaism?

Has it ever occurred to you that you have no idea what you're talking about?

 

[BookTenTiger]

I think it’s a good thing to give freedom of language the benefit of the doubt in all but egregious cases.

I'm not sure this is an issue of "freedom of language." No one is forcing Paizo to not use a word, and Paizo isn't censoring anyone else from using it.

I think this is an issue of respect.

 

[LongTimeLurker]

No one is making words off limits. Paizo isn't preventing (or trying to prevent) anyone from saying or writing "phylactery." It's an editorial choice.

Oh, don't think for one second that Pazio isn't trying to influence the culture around their games through their editorial choices.