Pathfinder 2E Paizo drops use of the word phylactery

[Aldarc]

So should we stick to the original meaning of Phylactery which means protective amulet in Greek or should we accept that language drift, which includes Phylactery becoming a word for fantasy soul container thing, completely disconnected from its previous meanings?

I have the impression that language changes are used very selectively here.

That impression you have is normally called "context." It turns out that it’s quite useful when talking about words and their usage in language and culture.

 

[Umbran]

Sorry, this is WAYYY off topic.

Mod Note:
Yeah, it is.

Folks, this thread is not about Chapelle, nor stand-up comedians in general. Please stick to gaming here. Thanks.

 

[Ixal]

That impression you have is normally called "context." It turns out that it’s quite useful when talking about words and their usage in language and culture.

No matter the context I find it strange to at one point say that that changing language needs to be accepted but on the other saying that one word which has been in use for decades and most people do not even connect it to (one of) its original meanings should not be used anymore.
Isn't that a textbook example of changing language?

 

[Aldarc]

No matter the context I find it strange to at one point say that that changing language needs to be accepted but on the other saying that one word which has been in use for decades and most people do not even connect it to (one of) its original meanings should not be used anymore.
Isn't that a textbook example of changing language?

Welcome to the real world where these sort of conversations have been transpiring for decades. There are plenty of words and phrases that are being gradually phased out of wider cultural usage - which many people didn't connect to its original mean - precisely because they were deemed harmful, insensitive, problematic, and not worth preserving.

 

[BookTenTiger]

Welcome to the real world where these sort of conversations have been transpiring for decades. There are plenty of words and phrases that are being gradually phased out of wider cultural usage - which many people didn't connect to its original mean - precisely because they were deemed harmful, insensitive, problematic, and not worth preserving.

And don't forget that new words are being introduced all the time too! Language change is definitely not a one-way street.

 

[Dire Bare]

Language drift and change, in and of itself, isn't good or bad. It's just the way language works. Words change meanings, fall out of usage, new words are created.

Borrowing a word from another language isn't inherently wrong . . . . but as several folks have pointed out, context matters. Linguistic context, and cultural context.

Phylactery was originally a Greek word, that overtime, became associated with a Jewish religious practice, which is now the primary meaning of the term. Gygax borrowed it, likely ignorant of it's context, or perhaps not fully understanding the context.

To continue using the word in D&D to describe a soul vessel for an evil undead abomination is disrespectful and insensitive to those of the Jewish faith for whom the word has a sacred and important cultural meaning.

Not all those of Jewish descent and/or Jewish faith use the word, or care about the word, or are offended by D&D's use of the word . . . . but enough are, and that's enough to make it an inappropriate usage.

By removing the word phylactery from D&D (and similar games, like Pathfinder), we aren't really losing much of anything other than a cool sounding word. And we're making progress on making the game more inclusive. It's a good trade, IMO.

 

[J.Quondam]

No matter the context I find it strange to at one point say that that changing language needs to be accepted but on the other saying that one word which has been in use for decades and most people do not even connect it to (one of) its original meanings should not be used anymore.
Isn't that a textbook example of changing language?

To be fair, "changing language" is a very, very broad phenomenon that happens for all kinds of reasons and in all kinds of ways-- not all of which are "equal," whatever that might mean.
There is certainly value in examining/critiquing the "hows" and "whys" of any particular change.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

Language drift and change, in and of itself, isn't good or bad. It's just the way language works. Words change meanings, fall out of usage, new words are created.

Borrowing a word from another language isn't inherently wrong . . . . but as several folks have pointed out, context matters. Linguistic context, and cultural context.

Phylactery was originally a Greek word, that overtime, became associated with a Jewish religious practice, which is now the primary meaning of the term. Gygax borrowed it, likely ignorant of it's context, or perhaps not fully understanding the context.

To continue using the word in D&D to describe a soul vessel for an evil undead abomination is disrespectful and insensitive to those of the Jewish faith for whom the word has a sacred and important cultural meaning.

Not all those of Jewish descent and/or Jewish faith use the word, or care about the word, or are offended by D&D's use of the word . . . . but enough are, and that's enough to make it an inappropriate usage.

By removing the word phylactery from D&D (and similar games, like Pathfinder), we aren't really losing much of anything other than a cool sounding word. And we're making progress on making the game more inclusive. It's a good trade, IMO.

And to expand upon this, "Phylactery", in the original Greek meaning, isn't even a proper term for what D&D/Pathfinder Phylacteries are. Phylacteries in D&D/Pathfinder are soul-boxes, not amulets. If a Lich wore their phylactery as an amulet, they would be a lot more vulnerable than if they had just left it hidden somewhere else.

Phylacteries in D&D/Pathfinder aren't like Tefillin nor the original Greek Phylakterion. The word just doesn't fit what the object actually is. Horcrux or Soul Vessel/Cage/Jar all fit way better than Phylactery does, even if you ignore the cultural problems of appropriating the word.

 

[Raunalyn]

No, my take away is that you can't or don't want to answer the question.

I see you've met Hussar...

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I see you've met Hussar...

Mod Note:

Making it personal is uncool. Digs like this are not welcome here.