D&D General How do you like your ASIs?

[Maxperson]

Yes, they're gifted. Not elite.

Semantics. Being gifted meets the definition for elite. Elite =/= specialized training. The training that elite soldiers receive is just one way to be elite.

 

[Azzy]

Of course, they were, and in a sense, they still are, it was one way to explain that "culturally", some classes were more appropriate for certain races. This has taken multiple forms throughout the editions, including weird ones like the Favored Class of 3e.

And, thankfully, those are gone along with level limits.

 

[Lyxen]

The defense rests.

And that was obviously a typo, so if it's all the argument that you can muster, it shows the strength of it...

 

[Lyxen]

And, thankfully, those are gone along with level limits.

Honestly, the "favored class" is not that long gone, it was "only" 3e and it is still in PF1. Can't say for PF2 though.

 

[Vaalingrade]

And that was obviously a typo, so if it's all the argument that you can muster, it shows the strength of it...

If that was a typo, then why have you spent the entire thread trying to attach a special same to power gaming?

What purpose does it serve to try and badger people into 'admitting' to powergaming by playing the game via the obvious design intent meant to filter all but the outliers into playing certain combinations?

It's not body building to eat right and exercise occasionally, just what you're supposed to do to be healthy, and it would be weird and obnoxious to run up to someone you see taking a walk and eating a carrot and screaming 'YOU'RE DOING THIS TO BODYBUILD! ADMIT IT!'.

Especially when they're trying to explain they're walking because the store is right across from their house and they just like carrots. Don't worry, they promise to have a deep-fried ho-ho and stay on the couch for the rest of the day for your approval.

 

[Lyxen]

If that was a typo, then why have you spent the entire thread trying to attach a special same to power gaming?

I have not. And, by the way, you have a typo in your sentence above.

What purpose does it serve to try and badger people into 'admitting' to powergaming by playing the game via the obvious design intent meant to filter all but the outliers into playing certain combinations?

I'm not badgering people into admitting to powergaming, I'm demonstrating that Floating ASIs are a power option and nothing more. After that, your shame, if any, is your own.

 

[Maxperson]

Same with naked barbarians. You need 16 DEX or CON to have AC high enough to melee naked. You can't run in melee only with 14 AC.

Barbarians are designed to get hit, so they work just fine with 14's. Reckless attack as a base ability for barbarians shows that intent. As does the first Bear aspect that gives you resistance to damage.

 

[Vaalingrade]

I have not. And, by the way, you have a typo in your sentence above.

Mine wasn't a Freudian slip though.

 

[Lyxen]

Barbarians are designed to get hit, so they work just fine with 14's. Reckless attack as a base ability for barbarians shows that intent. As does the first Bear aspect that gives you resistance to damage.

Exactly, and all those abilities are not supposed to be used all the time either. Of course, they can increase your DPR if that is what you are after, but it they are used indiscriminately and you die, it's still on you, not on the system and not on the ASIs...

 

[Scribe]

For a player to be put in the position of making an unsatisfying choice in a game, is unappealing. This is quite aside from the power that might be associated with choosing one way or another. I notice this happening with races. A visible internal struggle as the player tries to reconcile themselves with unsatisfying aspects of a possible choice, and as often fails and goes with the one that - in the game design as presented - is more satisfying. For me, the 'doesn't require' and 'power gaming' arguments stumble at this hurdle: they attribute motivations too narrowly (as well as containing lack of clarity about what would be required, or successful.)

Your whole post was great, but I just want to call out this section.

This quite clearly hits on posts that a few people have made, not to call anyone out, and I think is quite accurate.

The flip side is also true. The lack of fixed values, either due to the restriction, world building, or traditional aspect, gives the same unappealing feeling. Its not a logical issue on either side, if by logical we mean devoid of emotional influence.

People want what they want, and outside of a mechanical impact, its difficult to pin anything down, because you cannot quantify emotions between people/groups who feel dramatically different about a subject.