Level Up (A5E) Press the Attack/Fall Back update

[Legendweaver]

I'm quite excited about this new wording and its impact on combat, and I've been mulling over how it'll interact with other aspects of combat. This got me thinking about flanking. I think it's great that PtA now stacks with flanking (by increasing expertise dice) but it made me wonder if you can FB when flanked since there'd be an enemy exactly behind you blocking movement. Does "behind" mean "straight backward", or just "away from" the attacker? For example, is a backward diagonal movement allowed? I think I'm fine with either, just want to know.

Also, I assume if the defender's back is up against the wall, they're cornered and can't fall back (awesome!) but what if there's a column behind them, but open space to the left and right behind them?

 

[Amiasek]

Hm... So if someone chooses to Fall Back the attacker gets no benefits other than possibility to move extra 5ft but still gains a downside of all attacks against him being made with an advantage? It seems that most of the time this action could be just "enemy losses its reaction, but all attacks against you are made at advantage until your next turn" which can be pretty strong in certain situations I guess.

 

[Marcus Lindberg]

Can you target your ally with press the attack? Could be good to target your squishy ally standing beside a big melee monster pushing your ally out of harm's way.

 

[Morrus]

Can you target your ally with press the attack? Could be good to target your squishy ally standing beside a big melee monster pushing your ally out of harm's way.

I'd suggest a shove would be a more effective way of doing that, and only cost you one attack.

 

[lichmaster]

I'm quite excited about this new wording and its impact on combat, and I've been mulling over how it'll interact with other aspects of combat. This got me thinking about flanking. I think it's great that PtA now stacks with flanking (by increasing expertise dice) but it made me wonder if you can FB when flanked since there'd be an enemy exactly behind you blocking movement. Does "behind" mean "straight backward", or just "away from" the attacker? For example, is a backward diagonal movement allowed? I think I'm fine with either, just want to know.

Also, I assume if the defender's back is up against the wall, they're cornered and can't fall back (awesome!) but what if there's a column behind them, but open space to the left and right behind them?

I'd lean towards the first option:

- If you're forced to move backwards (not sideways, not diagonally), then this could mean that being flanked really sucks, because you cannot fall back, thus the attacker using PtA will attack you with expertise. Could be a nice way of introducing flanking implicitly. Would also mean that once you're cornered, you're in serious trouble.

- If you can move backwards diagonally, then you can avoid the problem of not being able to fall back if you're flanked, depending on relative positioning, but not if you have a wall behind you. If there's a column or a pillar right behind you, it would still work. Let's say this has a lower effect but still works

- If you can move laterally, also diagonally frontal, than FB makes no sense anymore.

 

[Deset Gled]

I'd suggest a shove would be a more effective way of doing that, and only cost you one attack.

With the new language of Press the Attack, though, you don't actually have to take the attack action. It's just a bonus action that can't be used after an attack has started. So PtA could be used with a spell, a dash, etc. Could be handy for times when a shove isn't convenient because you have other goals, but are willing to deal with others attacking you at advantage.

 

[ReshiIRE]

With the new language of Press the Attack, though, you don't actually have to take the attack action. It's just a bonus action that can't be used after an attack has started. So PtA could be used with a spell, a dash, etc. Could be handy for times when a shove isn't convenient because you have other goals, but are willing to deal with others attacking you at advantage.

The shove is still probably better because:

a) RAI, Press the Attack seems that it's going to require an attack roll at-least.
b) Falling Back consumes your reaction
c) A5E allows you to delibertly chose to fail a Saving Throw (which I'm fairly sure is not RAW or RAI in o5e; it requires delibert GM fiat).

(I'm really glad I used the online tools to look it up if you could choose to fail a Saving Throw in A5E before saying anything else; I've always thought that should be possible. It makes say, consentual use of Zone of Truth possible)

 

[FitzTheRuke]

I'd suggest a shove would be a more effective way of doing that, and only cost you one attack.

Wouldn't you deal Basic Melee Damage with a Shove?

 

[Deset Gled]

The shove is still probably better because:

a) RAI, Press the Attack seems that it's going to require an attack roll at-least.
b) Falling Back consumes your reaction
c) A5E allows you to delibertly chose to fail a Saving Throw (which I'm fairly sure is not RAW or RAI in 5e; it requires delibert GM fiat).

Many times, shove will be better. Also, I don't think PtA is unbalanced when used this way. But there are some instances where PtA used without an attack would be pretty cool. Imagine the fighter is standing in a doorway, blocking a monster from getting out of a room. The warlock walks up behind the fighter, uses PtA to push him away (to avoid the fighter granting partial cover) then Blasts the monster with a nice 5' square between them. Can't be done (in one turn) with a shove, because the warlock isn't attacking.

Another hypothetical: you're not sure if you want to engage with an enemy, or retreat. You don't want to Disengage, because you need to get at least 50' away to get to safety. So, you PtA. If the target Falls Back, you can Dash and get 60' away to safety without drawing an AoO. If they don't Fall Back, you now attack with a bonus. If the enemy doesn't Fall Back and you don't down them, you're going to pay the price. Sounds like a neat tactical option.

 

[lichmaster]

Many times, shove will be better. Also, I don't think PtA is unbalanced when used this way. But there are some instances where PtA used without an attack would be pretty cool. Imagine the fighter is standing in a doorway, blocking a monster from getting out of a room. The warlock walks up behind the fighter, uses PtA to push him away (to avoid the fighter granting partial cover) then Blasts the monster with a nice 5' square between them. Can't be done (in one turn) with a shove, because the warlock isn't attacking.

Another hypothetical: you're not sure if you want to engage with an enemy, or retreat. You don't want to Disengage, because you need to get at least 50' away to get to safety. So, you PtA. If the target Falls Back, you can Dash and get 60' away to safety without drawing an AoO. If they don't Fall Back, you now attack with a bonus. If the enemy doesn't Fall Back and you don't down them, you're going to pay the price. Sounds like a neat tactical option.

I wouldn't allow your hypothesis 2, as it resembles more feinting than pressing the attack.
Option 1 could maybe work, but the warlock will then be attacked with advantage after the Blast. Seems a very niche use.