aco175
Legend
Not TableTop, but online games similar to D&D like League of Legends and maybe Overwatch. I don't know that much about it.
D&D General D&D (and potentially other TTRPG's) is a sport
This was the premise of GOLD: The Series. I've always been sorry they didn't make a second season.
You, unfortunately, are in the presence of a large number of people with access to Google, who can check whether thinking hard is really strenuous to the body - and it isn't.
Neural activity does burn energy, of course, but the overwhelming amount of your neural activity is not associated with active thought. The energy use difference between "mental exertion" and "vegging on the couch watching a movie" is not significant in your body's energy budget.
There are many reasons the body can "feel tired" other than "I had a workout". So, I'm sorry, but this just doesn't hold up. The biology is not on your side.
Because "Mind Sports" is a marketing phrase, not a statement of fact.
Also, because those games have clear objective scoring and win conditions, while RPGs do not, in general.
We don't.
DollarD
Long-time Lurker
Good point! And I did! And it's not as clear cut as you make it out to be...
Here's a recent review of studies on the effects of Mental Fatigue on Physical Performance:
The Effects of Mental Fatigue on Physical Performance: A Systematic Review
The general finding was a decline in endurance performance (decreased time to exhaustion and self-selected power output/velocity or increased completion time) associated with a higher than normal perceived exertion.
Here's another one that doesn't require payment to read the entire review:
Fatigue Induced by Physical and Mental Exertion Increases Perception of Effort and Impairs Subsequent Endurance Performance
Consequently, it seems clear that fatigue induced by mental exertion decreases endurance performance, even if prior mental exertion does not alter physiological responses to endurance exercise.
I feel D&D is not so close to "vegging on the couch watching a movie", but your kilometrage may vary. And as noted above, "mental exertion does not alter physiological responses."
So, yes, it does not alter the body's energy budget.
In any case, a reading of the above does substantiate your case with regards to certain biological aspects, as noted above.
Specifically:
First, the impact of physical and mental exertion on force production capacity is presented, with specific emphasize on the fact that solely physical exertion and not mental exertion induces a decrease in force production capacity of the working muscles.
However, they do note:
All these studies reached a consensus on the negative impact of prior mental exertion on endurance performance; even so elite athletes present a greater resistance to fatigue induced by prior mental exertion. This impairment was observed during cycling and running exercises. Interestingly, Smith and colleagues demonstrated that fatigue induced by mental exertion also impairs prolonged intermittent and graded running exercises. Consequently, it seems clear that fatigue induced by mental exertion decreases endurance performance, even if prior mental exertion does not alter physiological responses to endurance exercise.
So you are correct that physiologically, there appears to be no reason that mental exertion should affect performance. And yet studies have shown that it does. Why?
Therefore, these results raise a simple question: do physical exertion and mental exertion alter a common variable during subsequent endurance exercise? The answer is yes. This variable altered by both physical exertion and mental exertion is the perception of effort.
[...]
While the increased perceived exertion in presence of fatigue of a muscle group involved in subsequent endurance exercise is associated with an increase in activity of cortical premotor and motor areas (i.e., index of central motor command) to compensate for alteration of neuromuscular properties of the working muscles; the underlying mechanisms behind the increased perceived exertion induced by fatigue of a muscle group non-involved in subsequent endurance exercise and fatigue induced by mental exertion remain unclear.
[...]
An alternative hypothesis could be that prior prolonged activation of premotor and motor areas associated with the completion of the fatiguing exercise would induce intrinsic changes in the brain, inducing an alteration of the activation of premotor and motor areas in the subsequent exercise. [..] Therefore, future studies should investigate the underlying mechanisms responsible of the increased perception of effort during exercise and caused by prior physical and mental exertion.
Seems like it is going to require more study...
You might very well be right about that. But as the studies showed:
All these studies reached a consensus on the negative impact of prior mental exertion on endurance performance; even so elite athletes present a greater resistance to fatigue induced by prior mental exertion.
Maybe they're onto something?
However, for the purposes of a competition, a win condition can be set for a specific scenario, couldn't it? I rather imagine something similiar has been done at a Con somewhere?
I rather suspected you wouldn't, based on the above.
You certainly do make discussion interesting, Umbran. Making me cite sources for what was intended to be a humorous statement, lol. Thank you.
Now I've learned a bit more as well.
anvilandcompass
Villager
I would have to say no. If the amount of concentration made it a sport, being a programmer would be a sport too with etiquette being the professional code of conduct. We can't just keep calling everything a sport because it is a game. Some games are fine not being sports. It is a table-top role playing game and there is nothing wrong with that. Fencing would be a sport.
Grammarsalad
Explorer
CubicsRube
Hero
I am a finance professional as well as a hobby crossfit and olympic weightlifter.
I can tell you while both mental and physocal exertion are a thing, they are nothing alike.
I also strongly disagree that D&D requires the same level of concentration as a highly deterministic game like chess does where you can plan 20 steps ahead and the opponents likely responses.
And lastly, a sport needs to have a highly detailed set of rules and a referee who is not the opponent at the least.
I assume this post was made in joke, but it's pretty insulting to the work and discipline real athletes go through (of which I am not counting myself as one).
I can tell you while both mental and physocal exertion are a thing, they are nothing alike.
I also strongly disagree that D&D requires the same level of concentration as a highly deterministic game like chess does where you can plan 20 steps ahead and the opponents likely responses.
And lastly, a sport needs to have a highly detailed set of rules and a referee who is not the opponent at the least.
I assume this post was made in joke, but it's pretty insulting to the work and discipline real athletes go through (of which I am not counting myself as one).
LuisCarlos17f
Legend
The key is if WotC/Hasbro can make money with actual-play shows or e-sports. My opinion is an e-sport based on d20 system would need a special "crunch" designed to be used by profesional munchkins, and that wouldn't be our D&D 5th Ed. Maybe we will see in the future more actual-play shows using virtual tabletops, and even videogames will offer the virtual tabletop mode as an optional mode.
Other option would be an asymetric e-spot where a group of players are the dungeon-crawlers, and other player is the dungeon-master controlling the traps and the summoning of minions and bosses. Something like "Resident Evil: Resistance".
Other option would be an asymetric e-spot where a group of players are the dungeon-crawlers, and other player is the dungeon-master controlling the traps and the summoning of minions and bosses. Something like "Resident Evil: Resistance".
John R Davis
Hero
Of course it is.
One of my ongoing jokes for the last several decades, when in a hot sweaty August convention is that " DND is not a summer sport".
One of my ongoing jokes for the last several decades, when in a hot sweaty August convention is that " DND is not a summer sport".
Similar Threads
