D&D 5E Don't play "stupid" characters. It is ableist.

[Scott Christian]

The important part is justifying our insensitivity

What's really insulting is when they pretend the issue is 'fantasy vs reality' in order to maintain a damaging status quo they clearly either don't understand or whose sufferers they don't care about.

I notice when people try and slippery slope, they still keep their eyes on 'acceptable' targets like fat people or apparently the mentally disabled and never slide the other way into racial stereotypes. Why is that? It is because they know that would be wrong?

Considering I play with some of the kindest people on earth, most of whom have devoted their lives to helping others with their career choice, and have done so for years, I really think the only fallacy occurring here is someone who thinks they are better than others.

And your verbiage is incorrect. They do not "target" heavy people or people who have a lower IQ; they roleplay a person to highlight a character trait. I have never seen a player decide to play an obese or low IQ character. I have seen almost every DM I know do it hundreds of times, because they are highlighting a character's trait. So when the party asks the sailor who is way down on the scale of IQ, and he responds with a smile and says, "I don't know," to every complex question, then they are highlighting one of his traits. They may also describe them as kind-hearted or charming. The fact they have a childlike intelligence is one of their traits.

Again, part of elitism is believing in one's superior intellect, which in turn, leads to issues being black and white. The opposite of intellect.

 

[Faolyn]

No, you seem to be interpreting it as saying "take care not to portray characters with low intelligence scores as offensive caricatures of people with learning difficulties". Which is fair enough, if obvious. But that's not actually what the OP says: they are themselves conflating learning difficulties with stupidity.

That's not entirely what I read. Take this line:

When you play 'stupid' characters are you are saying that there are stupid people and then you are imitating those people.

I read this as people saying that some people are stupid--and I do wish @ad_hoc would specify here what he means--and that they are deliberately mocking them (making them a "walking insult and punching bag").

Now, I fully admit that his examples of how to play a person with low Int are conflating non-intellect issues with low Int. I said as much in my initial post to this thread, but that was like on page 2 or something so it's easy to forget at this point. I believe the examples were just poorly thought-out and weren't him actually saying "you have ADHD/a learning disability/are a foreigner, therefore you're not that smart." But until @ad_hoc explains--I'm also assuming that he's been busy with holiday stuff--we don't know for certain.

 

[Faolyn]

There has never been a direct correlation between IQ distribution and the 3d6 bell curve ever mentioned in an official D&D book. The closest anyone can get is that 1E had a reference to using a modified 3d6 roll for NPCs if you wanted to randomize their ability scores.

Actually, I think it came from a joke article in an early Dragon magazine by... I want to say Roger Moore? showing how you could determine your real-world AD&D scores. Divide your IQ by 10. Also, your Charisma was determined by the number of interviews you'd given. Can't remember the issue, though.

I think too many people took it to heart.

 

[ad_hoc]

That's not entirely what I read. Take this line:


I read this as people saying that some people are stupid--and I do wish @ad_hoc would specify here what he means--and that they are deliberately mocking them (making them a "walking insult and punching bag").

Now, I fully admit that his examples of how to play a person with low Int are conflating non-intellect issues with low Int. I said as much in my initial post to this thread, but that was like on page 2 or something so it's easy to forget at this point. I believe the examples were just poorly thought-out and weren't him actually saying "you have ADHD/a learning disability/are a foreigner, therefore you're not that smart." But until @ad_hoc explains--I'm also assuming that he's been busy with holiday stuff--we don't know for certain.

I addressed this in a post a couple pages back.

The idea of inherent 'stupidness' is flawed and a (complicated) result of our culture.

So don't do that. Instead, here are a some traits and behaviours which lead people to perceive others as stupid. They aren't limited to the OP. I provided more in my follow up post but they are countless.

Stop thinking of others as being stupid. Instead think of them as a complicated bag of traits and behaviours and pick and pull some of those to portray someone who is deemed to be 'stupid' by society.

There are 2 benefits here:

1) You won't be perpetuating and reinforcing harmful beliefs.
2) You won't need to keep making 'how do I play low intelligence characters' because the traits and behaviours you have chosen will guide you.

 

[Faolyn]

I played a lot of hockey when I was younger. I aslo played football (the sissy kind with the pads) as well as a ton of other sports.

Because real men have traumatic brain injuries.

 

[Faolyn]

Out of interest why is this offensive?

That bit isn't offensive, but it's often disruptive.

 

[Faolyn]

I guess my question to all this is: What is okay to play? (Especially for the DM to play as an NPC.)

A heavy-set man that runs out of breath and has a hard time moving?
An ugly man covered with warts?
A jaded women with a southern accent who works at the brothel?
A naive teenager who was born with a condition that makes them stink?
A dirt-poor farmer that is illiterate?

Are you playing the character with actual reasons to be like this, or are you basically making fun of real people like this? I know people who would honestly play a character like this. I've also known people who would play these characters as jokes.

 

[SkidAce]

Are you playing the character with actual reasons to be like this, or are you basically making fun of real people like this? I know people who would honestly play a character like this. I've also known people who would play these characters as jokes.

I feel there is some important truth in this question that probably lies at the heart of the matter.

 

[Faolyn]

I addressed this in a post a couple pages back.

The idea of inherent 'stupidness' is flawed and a (complicated) result of our culture.

So don't do that. Instead, here are a some traits and behaviours which lead people to perceive others as stupid. They aren't limited to the OP. I provided more in my follow up post but they are countless.

Stop thinking of others as being stupid. Instead think of them as a complicated bag of traits and behaviours and pick and pull some of those to portray someone who is deemed to be 'stupid' by society.

There are 2 benefits here:

1) You won't be perpetuating and reinforcing harmful beliefs.
2) You won't need to keep making 'how do I play low intelligence characters' because the traits and behaviours you have chosen will guide you.

First off, I completely agree with your basic premise. However, as I pointed out in my initial post here (and others have pointed out as well), you went about this a bad way. Because Intelligence, the D&D score, isn't about how people perceive you; it's about your actual abilities. So if you're playing a person with Int 7, but you decide to play this person as being from a very different country and having problems adapting, you're saying "foreigner = stupid." Especially since your Int doesn't become higher if you were to travel back to your country, since that's not how D&D works. Same thing for any of the other ideas you posted there; none of them are really tied to Intelligence, the D&D stat--or any other D&D stat. At most, they're Personality Traits (to go along with Bonds, Ideals, and Flaws). "I am new to this country and I'm not adapting well."

 

[Charlaquin]

I think this was certainly a thing back in the day (late 1E through 2E) thanks to everyone wanting to have grand adventures like the Dragonlance novels, but not having the right mechanics to support it. Many rules were ignored and die rolls "fudged" in those times...

I feel like when the mechanic heavy 3E dropped that mostly went away though. All the discussion was based around game math, rules, optimal/clever builds, and tactical combat. 4E even more so. It was a very "crunchy" time to be alive!

When 5E dropped, I think it was a good mix of both. I personally was really hoping that teased "Advanced" book would have come out to really get us back to 3E levels of crunch, but that doesn't seem to be in the cards anymore. As the game currently is though, there really isn't that much mechanically interesting to talk about.

Even this discussion, which tackles something as complicated as the range of IQ's and how to roleplay them, mechanically boils down to exceptionally smart PC's succeeding 15% more than their "average" Int companions.

Even during the run of 3e and 4e I remember how people would brag about the session they had last week where “no one touched a die!”