D&D 5E Using social skills on other PCs

[clearstream]

And nothing indicates in any way that they've abandoned that for 5e. The best you can say is that even though the social interaction rules heavily imply that they are only to be used against NPCs, they don't explicitly say that. Nothing at all supports their use against PCs. There's not one example of it anywhere in any official 5e book.

Is your position that we need to examine previous editions for rules that carry over because they weren't expressly repudiated?

 

[Charlaquin]

Yes. Just as a non-magical ability like menacing Attack can make a character feel fear, and a spell can make a character feel friendship.

Generally, players decide. The powerful exception is where game mechanics specifically impose.

Whether or not to get pushed is not something you can decide. It happens to you, or it doesn’t. What to do when someone threatens you is something you can (and must) decide. I don’t understand how the difference could be the least bit unclear.

 

[clearstream]

Sure, if the specific rule for a class ability, racial ability, spell, etc. says so. There are no such specific rules for social skills.

This comes back to the possible argument of insufficient specification. The problem with that argument is that there is enough present in the core books to amount to sufficient specification if a DM likes.

 

[clearstream]

Whether or not to get pushed is not something you can decide. It happens to you, or it doesn’t. What to do when someone threatens you is something you can (and must) decide. I don’t understand how the difference could be the least bit unclear.

Menacing Attack?

 

[Maxperson]

I'm not convinced the rules intentionally leave it up to the player how they act in response to social interactions. As someone above said, the fact that monsters have social proficiencies rather implies that wasn't intended.

And I pointed out that 2 monsters in the MM from A-D have intimidate, and 4 have persuasion. Not one Angel, Demon, Devil or Dragon can has the intimidate skill. And only 4 dragons(3 of which are good) have persuasion. 85 monsters and only 6 have those skills.

If these skills were supposed to be used against PCs and not say for use against other NPCs or to inform the DM on how to roleplay them, many more monsters would have those skills. I mean, the whole devil schtick is to persuade people to make deals, except not one of them is actually proficient in it.

 

[Maxperson]

This comes back to the possible argument of insufficient specification.

Yes. Zero specification is insufficient.

The problem with that argument is that there is enough present in the core books to amount to sufficient specification if a DM likes.

Nope. There's not one iota in social interactions that specifically contradicts the player making the decision about how his PC thinks or acts.

 

[Maxperson]

Is your position that we need to examine previous editions for rules that carry over because they weren't expressly repudiated?

No. That's not what I said in what you just quoted. Here's the relevant part of that quote and it deals entirely with 5e, "The best you can say is that even though the social interaction rules heavily imply that they are only to be used against NPCs, they don't explicitly say that. Nothing at all supports their use against PCs. There's not one example of it anywhere in any official 5e book.:

 

[Maxperson]

Menacing Attack?

You keep repeating that is if it's somehow evidence that social skills(persuasion, diplomacy and intimidate) are the same. They aren't. A class ability that is a SPECIFIC exception is not the same as social skills that have no specific exception/contradiction in them anywhere.

 

[clearstream]

You keep repeating that is if it's somehow evidence that social skills(persuasion, diplomacy and intimidate) are the same. They aren't. A class ability that is a SPECIFIC exception is not the same as social skills that have no specific exception/contradiction in them anywhere.

Do you believe non-player characters can travel overland? Can they rest?

 

[Maxperson]

Do you believe non-player characters can travel overland? Can they rest?

What do these have to do with social skills?