TSR TSR3.5 Launches IndieGogo Campaign to "Stop" WotC

The latest in the TSR3 saga, which has gone quiet for a while, is a new IndieGoGo campaign launched to "stop Wizards of the Coast". They cite wrongful bullying of TSR, and refusal to answer requests that WotC show TSR "proof of their claims" (although the campaign page doesn't mention what those claims are).

The IndieGoGo campaign was launched yesterday and has so far raised $675 (at the time of writing).

The action TSR seeks is a "Trademark Declaratory Judgement of Ownership" which is a court declaration about the status of something in dispute.

TSR has launched a campaign to stop Wizards of the Coast

Become a Champion of TSR and Support TSR’s campaign against Wizards of the Coast!

TSR is taking a stand against Wizards of the Coast (“WOTC”) and its wrongful bullying of TSR, our trademarks, and its public libeling and slander of all those who helped create TSR based Dungeons & Dragons and products.

Wizards of the Coast has continually bullied TSR regarding TSR’s legally owned Trademarks. Wizards of the Coast has refused to answer all of TSR's repeated requests that they show any proof of their claims. Wizards of the Coast has the vast resources behind them and is implying to bring them to bear down on TSR.

The new TSR suffered widespread pushback when it launched, which they blamed on WotC, claiming that they were under a "coordinated assault across various channels being mounted.... by [WotC]" The company announced itself earlier this year, having acquired the TSR trademark after the previous holder accidentally let it lapse. It was run by Ernie Gygax, Justin LaNasa, and Stephen Dinehart. After several weeks of controversy, the company split into two -- Wonderfilled (Stephen Dinehart), and TSR (Ernie Gygax and Justin LaNasa).

TSR - TSR3 Blames Widespread Pushback On WotC

In an unexpected turn of events, the primary individuals behind TSR3 have claimed the pushback they've received on social media and elsewhere was orchestrated by .... D&D publisher Wizards of the Coast (a company which has thus far remained completely silent on recent events). TSR3 is run by...

www.enworld.org

The page also indicates an intention to "fight to have WotC's legacy product disclaimer removed" from older products (that's the disclaimer on the older books available on DMs Guild which indicates that those books are products of their time) by claiming that the disclaimer portrays the creators of those older products as "as supporting those alleged prejudices, stereotypes and bigotry, wrongfully claimed to be part of those products".

TSR will also Fight to Have the WOTC Legacy Disclaimer Removed

TSR is suing WOTC for Trademark Declaratory Judgement of Ownership . TSR will also pursue in the near future having WOTC remove the legacy content disclaimer placed on TSR based Dungeons & Dragons and other products, and retractions of any other libel and slander which alleges that racism and other heinous beliefs are incorporated into those products.

This disclaimer attempts to make a statement of fact argument, and therefore paints all of the writers, editors, artists and consumers of those products as supporting those alleged prejudices, stereotypes and bigotry, wrongfully claimed to be part of those products. This statement by Wizards of the Coast opens the possibility for the producers and players of these "Legacy Products" to face ridicule, and face the labeling as "bigots", "racists", "misogynists", and worse Cyber & Physical Attacks!

Wizards of the Coast legacy content disclaimer.

"We (Wizards) recognize that some of the legacy content available on this website does not reflect the values of the Dungeons & Dragons franchise today. Some older content may reflect ethnic, racial, and gender prejudice that were commonplace in American society at that time. These depictions were wrong then and are wrong today. This content is presented as it was originally created, because to do otherwise would be the same as claiming these prejudices never existed. Dungeons & Dragons teaches that diversity is a strength, and we strive to make our D&D products as welcoming and inclusive as possible. This part of our work will never end".

TSR3's Justin LaNasa spoke about the campaign in a YouTube video.

TSR - Companies & Freelancers Distance Themselves From The New TSR

The new TSR (which I refer to as TSR3 to avoid confusion) has doubled down on its stance--which has been widely condemned online--via an ongoing series of tweets and replies from its TSR Games, Giantlands, and Dungeon Hobby Museum social media accounts (possibly operated by Justin LaNasa) in an...

www.enworld.org

 

[Mistwell]

Worse - if you do ignore them they won't ignore each other. They accrue around each other and reinforce each other forming a bigger group. The internet makes that easier to do than ever.

Ignoring people so they'll go away is predicated on the idea that if everyone denies that person reinforcement they'll change their behavior. With the internet you can always find a group to reinforce any behavior. They're never actually "cut off" from anything, they just have a new social group who will tell them what they want to hear (and that's how you end up with stuff like Q...)

Well no the goal of ignoring people isn't to make them change their behavior (that doesn't tend to work) but it reduces the perceived importance of their message in society, and therefore reduces the number of other people who become attracted to that idea purely because it's perceived as the popular anti-establishment position.

 

[Scribe]

In summary: Before the internet, your crazy neighbor largely was alone and it was very hard for them to find like minded individuals. Their crazy conspiracies were never acknowledged as legitimate by 99% of the people they saw and interacted with on a daily basis. Their fringe beliefs remained fringe among those they interacted with most of the time.

The flaws of curated social media, in a nutshell.

 

[Faolyn]

I might actually have been wrong about the lack of gaming products. Apparently they have a game called Tales & Tots. The description fills me with confidence in the skill of the editor.

I'm guessing Tales & Tots has nothing to do with Embassies. Or much of anything, since the page doesn't actually say what sort of game it is. (The description on Google books doesn't help either.)

While I'm all for RPing with your kids, isn't two years old a bit young? OTOH, some friends of mine gave their 15 month old a super-sized d20 to roll and she roll a natural 20 on her very first try, so who knows.

 

[Faolyn]

Here's the latest diatribe to appear on their indiegogo campaign page, true masterclass in gatekeeping, whiny grievance, and the worst of onion-belted, cloud-fist-shaking grognardery:

View attachment 148110

"Won't someone think of the children??!?"

* chef's kiss! *

They don't want "modern think-speak" games, but do want new players. Is there a supply of new players who only think like old ones?

 

[Bolares]

Amazingly, the majority of the legal profession is below average!!!

…because if they could do math, they wouldn’t have gone to law school ….

That’s….. absolutelly acurate

 

[Kannik]

Ignoring people so they'll go away is predicated on the idea that if everyone denies that person reinforcement they'll change their behavior. With the internet you can always find a group to reinforce any behavior. They're never actually "cut off" from anything, they just have a new social group who will tell them what they want to hear (and that's how you end up with stuff like Q...)

That is an important point. One of our (as humans) tests for what is "reality" is agreement with others. Something that has a strong "agreement reality" becomes/is true for us. While on the one hand the rise of the internet lets like-minded fans coalesce it works like that for everyone, including deleterious views and opinions. It is super easy to find a group of like-minded individuals who will create that magic number of agreement to create a reality.

Plus it gets worse; unlike a public square, on the internet you can be isolated from opposing ideas which further reinforces the agreement (it feels like everyone thinks this way!). Add to that the algorithmic shaping of many internet services and companies, and the siloed, echo chambers become all the more solidified. And on top of even all that, once you have this group, notions of things like “secret knowledge” or “not being one of the ignorant crowd” or “the special” creep in and take hold, which further cements people’s position. It becomes part of their identity, and identities (when we don’t realize they are our identities) are to be as defended as vigorously as an attack on the body, for either equals the death of the self to the survival portions of our brain.

Not sure whether ignoring or not ignoring is the best route to go (it might depend how big the group is or how deep the belief is), but perhaps when it’s big enough stating “I disagree” at least helps chip away at agreement reality...

 

[humble minion]

aha, Found it!

It was SIR Lanasa, not lord, sorry for the confusion.

Dont know it happened, but he does use it a lot on his ''official'' website.

I know this thread has moved on 10 pages since this was posted, but I only just saw it myself. My guess is that he's probably bitten on one of those schemes where you can buy nominal 'lordship' of a square foot of land in a Scottish conservation reserve. Most people use this as a fun gift or way of contributing to conservation, or as a way of connecting to their Scottish roots. Some take it seriously, or do it because they believe a title gives them more gravitas and credibility when running grifts.

I suspect Mr LaNasa is of the latter variety. And yeah, this sort of thing does not entitle you to call yourself 'sir' to be the best of my knowledge, but given his record on other matters, I suspect Mr Lanasa's understanding of the intricacies of British titles and etiquette maybe isn't as encyclopedically comprehensive as it could be...

 

[humble minion]

In summary: Before the internet, your crazy neighbor largely was alone and it was very hard for them to find like minded individuals. Their crazy conspiracies were never acknowledged as legitimate by 99% of the people they saw and interacted with on a daily basis. Their fringe beliefs remained fringe among those they interacted with most of the time.

But with the internet, suddenly most of their interaction was with like minded folks. That fringe belief was reaffirmed and thus no longer became fringe, but accepted. Which in turn fed people to start thinking of even more extreme beliefs, even in those circles. So those people in turn began to find others like them, rinse and repeat. Next thing you know, people think the Clintons ran a pedo ring out of a pizza parlor and QANon became mainstream.

Well, very true, but it cuts both ways. The internet allows very small isolated minorities to find others who share the same experiences or views. This is a great thing for, for instance, D&D players in rural areas, or queer kids in places where the prevailing culture is repressive. Being able to find connect with other people like you can be a lifesaver, literally. And naturally, once you've done this, you spend more time in the (virtual) company of people with whom you have a lot in common.

But the same tools that allow these people to connect also allow neo-Nazis or child molesters etc to connect with each other, and block out any influence from mainstream reality. It's both a bug and a feature.

 

[MGibster]

Unfortunately it turns out our parents were wrong - ignoring them doesn't make them go away. Nothing will make them go away. We're stuck with them.

Are we though? I honestly wouldn't hear anything about TSR save for this message board. But that's partially because I don't belong to a lot of other message boards related to gaming nor am I close follower of gaming news. If we ignored them we likely wouldn't hear much about them because I don't think they're producing anything that most gamers these days are interested in. And I don't mean that as an insult to them. They're going after a particular niche in what we're always told is a niche hobby to begin with.

 

[Erdric Dragin]

TSR 3.5...

Well, if this was a company that was allowed to continue publishing 3.5e D&D and at the rate they were going back when TSR was producing books, I'd be all in supporting that!