D&D 5E Using social skills on other PCs

[Swarmkeeper]

WTY!

You have noticed that my definition sustains 185, right? It divides roles as supported by the text. DM is master of rules. Player is master of their character. All one does to conform with what the text best supports is prevent the results of game mechanics from invalidating 185 unless they are S>G exceptions or set limits.

[Or a better way to put is is that when narrating the results, do so in the way that respects player agency.]

Indeed, yes.
Just was having a little fun with the agreement!

 

[Swarmkeeper]

to be fair this thread was done 50 pages ago...

I don’t think that’s fair at all to the folks who were enjoying the discussion. I mean, it’s entirely possible that “enjoying” is too strong a word here, but the point stands.

 

[clearstream]

I don’t think that’s fair at all to the folks who were enjoying the discussion. I mean, it’s entirely possible that “enjoying” is too strong a word here, but the point stands.

That which does not kill us makes us stronger!

 

[Maxperson]

My example is one of a character so cowed that they cannot run in fear for their life.

That's incredibly unrealistic. People in real life can and very often do change their minds when cowed, so it makes sense that characters can as well. Short of the supernatural or an extraordinary ability like Panache, you cannot encounter that example. Someone might choose not to run in fear for their life, but there's nothing preventing them other than themselves.

Panache uses an ability check. It can override. More generally, S>G exceptions are not excluded from arising within the scope of ability checks. (So any theory that would exclude them must be adjusted to tolerate them.)

Panache is what in 3e would be an extraordinary ability, "At 9th level, your charm becomes extraordinarily beguiling." It can accomplish things that are beyond what the ordinary skill can accomplish. It may use the ability check as the vehicle, but it is not your typical ability check. This is not an example of what ability checks as written in the PHB can accomplish.

 

[Maxperson]

Why? Why can physical skill impede how you act but social skill cannot impede how you think?

Because page 185 leaves how a character thinks fully in the hands of the player. Nothing in the ability check section specifically creates an exception or contradiction to page 185. Literally nothing.

Mind you, I fully agree that this is a sensible way to run things, but it is a personal preference, not something actually written in the rules.

The say it on page 185 by giving the player full control over PC thought, while not providing even a single statement or example that creates an exception or contradiction to page 185. On the other hand, there are physical exceptions or contradictions to page 185.

 

[Maxperson]

FWIW DMG 244 expressly characterises the PHB 185 section as a guideline.

FWIW the DMG shows us that rules and guidelines are equivalent in 5e and are completely interchangeable.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Because page 185 leaves how a character thinks fully in the hands of the player. Nothing in the ability check section specifically creates an exception or contradiction to page 185. Literally nothing.

The say it on page 185 by giving the player full control over PC thought, while not providing even a single statement or example that creates an exception or contradiction to page 185. On the other hand, there are physical exceptions or contradictions to page 185.

And how they act and talk, yet you're fine with physical skills impeding those! Be consistent!

 

[Maxperson]

And how they act and talk, yet you're fine with physical skills impeding those! Be consistent!

I am being consistent. Consistent with the rules. Trying to treat them the same is being inconsistent with the rules.

 

[Aldarc]

And how they act and talk, yet you're fine with physical skills impeding those! Be consistent!

"I am not grappled by that opposed Strength (Athletics) check, good GM, because you can only call for an ability check when an action is uncertain, but how my character acts or what they do is not uncertain since I choose that for my character on my own and a grapple check would subsequently impose on my character's ability to act or do."

 

[Crimson Longinus]

"I am not grappled by that opposed Strength (Athletics) check, good GM, because you can only call for an ability check when an action is uncertain, but how my character acts or what they do is not uncertain since I choose that for my character on my own and a grapple check would subsequently impose on my character's ability to act or do."

Exactly! That is the same argument, based on the same passage of the text.