Bolares
Legend
People keep thinking I'm joking when I say my goal in life is to make everyone play Eberron.
D&D 5E Yes to factionalism. No to racism.
- Thread starter Yaarel
- Start date
Scribe
Legend
OK, so if someone was interested in reading up on this (certainly not a cultured 3.5 fan) would the most recent 5e book be sufficient?
Marandahir
Crown-Forester (he/him)
I'd suggest also checking out the 5e splatbooks from Keith Baker (the creator of the setting) - "Exploring Eberron" and "Morgrave Miscellany" as well if you want a bit more of the Blood of Vol and Aerenal. Both are on the DMs Guild.
Maxperson
Morkus from Orkus
That would be the Crawling Claw.
Bolares
Legend
It would be sufficient to present the concepts. Keith also has Exploring Eberron that touches on this topocs, and his blog is also a great source.
You only run into that issue if you purposely create offensive faction.
The issue is creating bland restrictive races and trying to copy and paste their bland monocultural butts over and over and over multiple settings and being surprised that people consider them boring after a while.
jmartkdr2
Hero
I disagree: it's not hard at all to accidentally create an offensive faction.
I suppose the question becomes: does more content mean more good content? I can see the argument for yes (since even by Sturgeon's Law 5% isn't crud), but there still need to be work to make sure the crud isn't actually toxic.
Marandahir
Crown-Forester (he/him)
I'd direct @Scribe here:
Aerenal
and here:
Blood of Vol
specifically, when it comes to Keith Baker's blog. The posts attached to those tabs should get you started!
Bolares
Legend
Scribe dropped that bomb on me while I was leaving work, thanks for doing the baker’s work!
Marandahir
Crown-Forester (he/him)
Upthread, I brought up lumpers vs. splitters.
I tend to be on the lumper side of things, fyi.
For what its worth, I think 5e was wise to do more lumping and less grid-filling. We don't need 15 different types of Elves in the PHB.
I do think that if a player wanted to distinguish their elf character's culture, that it might be helpful to SPLIT certain lineage features away from the lineage itself and make them cultural features that are by default considered interchangeable with others in a pool of cultural features.
As it is right now, most of the features of a lineage is swappable per the custom lineage rules in Tasha's. But this lends itself to very diluted lineages that are harder to identify with.
An issue that cropped up with ASIs were using them to balance against other powerful features. So initially, Kobolds and Orcs were given negative lineage ASIs to balance against their powerful features, while Drow and Duergar were given lineage-weakenesses to light to balance their powerful features. While the weakness to bright light has remained for various Underdark peoples, the negative ability modifiers are gone because they locked in the idea that Orcs are dumb. Mountain Dwarves and half-elves are particularly difficult to work around because they get more 1st-level lineage ASIs than everyone else (net 4 versus net 3). But they also tell narrative stories that really distinguish Mountain Dwarves and Half-elves from other peoples.
Heck, Humans are distinguished almost entirely by their 1st-level ASI +1 to everything. That tells you everything you need to know about Humans as a people - they're flexible and can adapt to different walks of life (the variant human tells a different but related story - Humans can specialise in almost anything they put their mind to, even if its at the cost of their flexibility).
I'm a bit loathe to lose these AS bumps ever since. Owlin feel like they should have a +Dex feature or a +Wis or +Int feature. I can see why people would argue different boosts for different takes on Owlin, or Dhampir, etc, just as they did for all the previous peoples. I'm not sure how to tell the story of "Half elves are super charismatic and also dabblers but not as dabbly as Humans" without the Ability Scores. But that's because I'm a lazy game mechanics designer, it not being my job and all.
Assuming WotC don't backpedal on lineage Ability Score modifiers, I would like to see them removed from all core peoples in the PHB but give those lineages equally defining features that distinguish them from their peers. I want to be able to have some default character options sparking inspiration with any lineage I see. Currently, when I read about Leonin and how they have +Str and +Con, as opposed to the Tabaxi's +Dex and +Cha, it immediately tells me that Leonin are Fighters while Tabaxi are Rogues. Leonin are Paladins while Tabaxi are Bards. Etc. I think it's okay to lose the Ability Modifiers because your Leonin Rogue should be effective and a viable option. But I think there really should be some default assumptions that give new players a place to start with their character's lineage so they're not left wondering, "what do I do with this?"
And not just one option. Githzerai by narrative imply that they should make great Monks, but without that +Dex bump, Wood Elves make far better monks than Zerths ever will (even if the Zerths still get the +Wisdom that Monks need to effectively use their Ki powers). So, instead, we've stripped away the Ability Score Modifiers from the lineages. The Githzerai entry should still say, "they make great Monks of any tradition, Aberrant Mind Sorcerers, and Knowledge Domain Clerics" or something along those lines. Meanwhile, the Githyanki entry could say, "they make great Psi Warrior Fighters, Fiend Patron Warlocks, and Oath of Conquest Paladins" or something along those lines.
This sort of baseline suggestion, without any mechanical locking-in would give new players an entry into the lineage's traditional class biases without enforcing them because of CharOp or creating unhealthy stereotypes for a given lineage by making us think the only thing a Tabaxi is good for is thieving and drug dealing (gorrammit, Skyrim, Khajiiti can be Dragonborn too! They're not all "our sugar is yours, friend").
I tend to be on the lumper side of things, fyi.
For what its worth, I think 5e was wise to do more lumping and less grid-filling. We don't need 15 different types of Elves in the PHB.
I do think that if a player wanted to distinguish their elf character's culture, that it might be helpful to SPLIT certain lineage features away from the lineage itself and make them cultural features that are by default considered interchangeable with others in a pool of cultural features.
As it is right now, most of the features of a lineage is swappable per the custom lineage rules in Tasha's. But this lends itself to very diluted lineages that are harder to identify with.
An issue that cropped up with ASIs were using them to balance against other powerful features. So initially, Kobolds and Orcs were given negative lineage ASIs to balance against their powerful features, while Drow and Duergar were given lineage-weakenesses to light to balance their powerful features. While the weakness to bright light has remained for various Underdark peoples, the negative ability modifiers are gone because they locked in the idea that Orcs are dumb. Mountain Dwarves and half-elves are particularly difficult to work around because they get more 1st-level lineage ASIs than everyone else (net 4 versus net 3). But they also tell narrative stories that really distinguish Mountain Dwarves and Half-elves from other peoples.
Heck, Humans are distinguished almost entirely by their 1st-level ASI +1 to everything. That tells you everything you need to know about Humans as a people - they're flexible and can adapt to different walks of life (the variant human tells a different but related story - Humans can specialise in almost anything they put their mind to, even if its at the cost of their flexibility).
I'm a bit loathe to lose these AS bumps ever since. Owlin feel like they should have a +Dex feature or a +Wis or +Int feature. I can see why people would argue different boosts for different takes on Owlin, or Dhampir, etc, just as they did for all the previous peoples. I'm not sure how to tell the story of "Half elves are super charismatic and also dabblers but not as dabbly as Humans" without the Ability Scores. But that's because I'm a lazy game mechanics designer, it not being my job and all.
Assuming WotC don't backpedal on lineage Ability Score modifiers, I would like to see them removed from all core peoples in the PHB but give those lineages equally defining features that distinguish them from their peers. I want to be able to have some default character options sparking inspiration with any lineage I see. Currently, when I read about Leonin and how they have +Str and +Con, as opposed to the Tabaxi's +Dex and +Cha, it immediately tells me that Leonin are Fighters while Tabaxi are Rogues. Leonin are Paladins while Tabaxi are Bards. Etc. I think it's okay to lose the Ability Modifiers because your Leonin Rogue should be effective and a viable option. But I think there really should be some default assumptions that give new players a place to start with their character's lineage so they're not left wondering, "what do I do with this?"
And not just one option. Githzerai by narrative imply that they should make great Monks, but without that +Dex bump, Wood Elves make far better monks than Zerths ever will (even if the Zerths still get the +Wisdom that Monks need to effectively use their Ki powers). So, instead, we've stripped away the Ability Score Modifiers from the lineages. The Githzerai entry should still say, "they make great Monks of any tradition, Aberrant Mind Sorcerers, and Knowledge Domain Clerics" or something along those lines. Meanwhile, the Githyanki entry could say, "they make great Psi Warrior Fighters, Fiend Patron Warlocks, and Oath of Conquest Paladins" or something along those lines.
This sort of baseline suggestion, without any mechanical locking-in would give new players an entry into the lineage's traditional class biases without enforcing them because of CharOp or creating unhealthy stereotypes for a given lineage by making us think the only thing a Tabaxi is good for is thieving and drug dealing (gorrammit, Skyrim, Khajiiti can be Dragonborn too! They're not all "our sugar is yours, friend").
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