D&D 5E Aren't Short Rest classes *better* in "story-based" games rather than dungeon crawls?

[Baron Opal II]

The spells cast during downtime? Like, how many spell slots did you use during two weeks of rest where nothing happened?

Does anyone track spell slots during downtime?

It might be a consideration for major rituals or item enchantment if you need to cast specific spells in a limited time frame. Usually not.

 

[jmartkdr2]

The example came up in discussion of always needing extremely tight doom clocks to restrict short rests. Do all of your PC side plots also come with doom clocks as strict as the last five world ending apocalypse engines, or do short rest classes just pinky swear not to short rest every fight or two just because there isn't a doomclock attached to "filler" side plots that don't involve the end of the world?

Time pressure exists if it makes sense in the fiction: rescuing a hostage has a doom clock. Tending the garden does not.

BUT spells are limited by how often you can cast them - if you don't have time pressure, the limit doesn't effectively exist. So without time pressure, yeah, every spell can be cast as often as you want.

 

[jmartkdr2]

Whoa, what? Do the individual characters' conflicts get treated as full adventures? Or is everything mundane and calm before the adventure?

That's what I mean by "letting the wizard cast willy-nilly. If they have the slots, that's fine. But if they're level 5, the warlock can sending pretty much indefinitely during downtime but the wizard can only do it twice a day.

If it's downtime, what's the difference?

 

[Asisreo]

If it's downtime, what's the difference?

Well, I consider downtime to just be days that aren't specifically the "adventure." I've played in games where 99% of the games were downtime, then 1% was the adventure.

And yes, I consider travel days to be downtime. And if an obstacle comes around, it's just an encounter during downtime up until the adventure location has been arrived. If there's a string of encounters during travel, then it's part of the adventure.

So when your party spends the day at the minister's mansion to get to know all the possible suspects of the crime and no real combat occurs, that's downtime.

When your party spends a day searching the empty ruin for information, that's downtime.

When your party spends the day gathering rumors, that's downtime.

Even the very first tavern day, when all the characters introduce themselves, is a downtime day if all they do is get the quest information and head off the next day.

Surely, these days are important to the overall adventure, yet still has the time-tolerance for a warlock to cast their spells and short rest.

 

[Baron Opal II]

Well, I consider downtime to just be days that aren't specifically the "adventure." I've played in games where 99% of the games were downtime, then 1% was the adventure.

Our definitions of downtime are different.

Thinking about it, assuming no travelling and combing through a ruin, networking in the city, or otherwise pursuing some non-combative goal, I would consider a maximum of seven short rests through the day. That reserves 10 hours for rest and self-care, seven hours for pursuing goals, and seven hours interspersed for communing with the patron. As long as any social interactions don't take more than an hour (which might not be feasible). That might be a rather fractured day with all of the interruptions.

 

[jmartkdr2]

Well, I consider downtime to just be days that aren't specifically the "adventure." I've played in games where 99% of the games were downtime, then 1% was the adventure.

Okay, then this is a semantic disagreement: if there's an encounter involving dice and challenge and a scene played out - that's not downtime.

And yes, I consider travel days to be downtime. And if an obstacle comes around, it's just an encounter during downtime up until the adventure location has been arrived. If there's a string of encounters during travel, then it's part of the adventure.

Only downtime if we skip the details. Encounters on the road aren't downtime.

So when your party spends the day at the minister's mansion to get to know all the possible suspects of the crime and no real combat occurs, that's downtime.

Social scenes, not downtime

When your party spends a day searching the empty ruin for information, that's downtime.

Search rolls, not downtime

When your party spends the day gathering rumors, that's downtime.

If there are roll or roleplayed moments: not downtime.

Even the very first tavern day, when all the characters introduce themselves, is a downtime day if all they do is get the quest information and head off the next day.

Not downtime

Surely, these days are important to the overall adventure, yet still has the time-tolerance for a warlock to cast their spells and short rest.

Okay, then this is a semantic disagreement: you seem to be defining downtime as "not combat" - I define it as "not active scenes.

 

[Asisreo]

Okay, then this is a semantic disagreement: you seem to be defining downtime as "not combat" - I define it as "not active scenes.

Then we'll skip the semantics and focus on the meat of the issue:

During these days of "downtime," "social scenes," "travel days," etc., the characters have a pretty decent clue that the timer on their adventure isn't counting down by the hour. Whether or not you consider a ball downtime or a social scene, the warlock should still be able to cast disguise self and detect thoughts then when the social scene is over, take an hour rest and continue with the story.

 

[Baron Opal II]

Sure. There could be circumstances where they couldn't, but they would be situational. Most of the time it wouldn't be an issue.

 

[Asisreo]

Our definitions of downtime are different.

Thinking about it, assuming no travelling and combing through a ruin, networking in the city, or otherwise pursuing some non-combative goal, I would consider a maximum of seven short rests through the day. That reserves 10 hours for rest and self-care, seven hours for pursuing goals, and seven hours interspersed for communing with the patron. As long as any social interactions don't take more than an hour (which might not be feasible). That might be a rather fractured day with all of the interruptions.

Well, our definitions don't matter as long as we realize we're talking about the same thing.

Seven short rests is still plenty for a warlock, and realistically, they don't need to capitalize on every one of those possible short rests.

I'm not advocating for Warlocks to recklessly dump their slots then beg the party to stop. But rather, the opportunities to rest should be more open during these days than a full adventuring day, and more and easier opportunities naturally lead to an increase in those opportunities being seized.

 

[Baron Opal II]

Well, our definitions don't matter as long as we realize we're talking about the same thing.

Seven short rests is still plenty for a warlock, and realistically, they don't need to capitalize on every one of those possible short rests.

I'm not advocating for Warlocks to recklessly dump their slots then beg the party to stop. But rather, the opportunities to rest should be more open during these days than a full adventuring day, and more and easier opportunities naturally lead to an increase in those opportunities being seized.

I don't disagree, although I quibble with the "opportunities to rest should be more open during these days" statement. A short rest takes an hour. That's time you're not doing something else. That may have differing consequences depending on the situations, but it is still a cost.

Obviously, delving into the Vault of the Drow is very different then scoring an invite and proper dress to the fête for the Baron's newborn heir.

I guess it comes down to that nothing is free, but you should be able to use the advantages you have.