D&D General The Rakshasa and Genie Problem

[Helldritch]

The OP didn't say they were offended, but they did say they were uncomfortable with potential implications of having a monster from a culture that is not otherwise represented in the setting. Now, I certainly don't feel that way, but it's a personal feeling and that's perfectly fine. And as far as what to do about it, the OP's suggestions for their game are the only ones I can think of either. It doesn't have to have any wider implications than that. And a little research can certainly enrich your game and your DMing skills. Hard to argue with that.

That we understand. And the solution is so easy yet so avoided. It is simple, a monster makes feel uncomfortable? Stop using it. Modify it so that you are no longer uncomfortable with it. I have my share of monsters that I do not use foe many reasons. Some I dislike, some make me uncomfortable to use them (many reasons here) and some are simply a redundancy of other monsters. But the thread has evolved to be much more.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I think most of us agree with that. (Not all of us, because this is the internet and there are some outliers on the internet.) I don't think anyone involved in this discussion has talked about moral failing or establishing parameters of what's permissable by some undefined hypothetical authority.

It can be difficult to separate, "this is a problem for me" from, "this should be a problem for you". I believe the OP is saying the former.

 

[Remathilis]

I just....

When the choice is "nuke it from orbit" vs. "do a little research," why do people feel "nuke it from orbit" is the more reasonable option?

Am I dreaming? Is this real?

So let's take it back to the OPs premise: raksashas exist in Eberron. Raksashas are Indian-coded due to their rw origin. There is no India analog in Eberron. How do you fix this?

One of the suggestions is that if the setting lacks a stand in for a particular culture, the monsters from that culture shouldn't be included. I've seen similar arguments about things like monks or samurai as well. Eberron, lacking analogs for real world cultures, shouldn't use those elements. I suggest if that's going to be the case, then break it up by culture so that it becomes part of the package deal. You want Chinese elements in your game? Get the China supplement. It's been researched and written by experts in Chinese culture and is faithful to the source material and respectful to the culture.

 

[Bedrockgames]

This is exactly what we are advocating for. Respectful integration of a culture in your game. D&D gave you the basics, you expanded it and made it incredible and good. You did your research and you learned. What else could be asked for? Kudo.

I wasn’t using the D&D system (just to be clear).

My feeling on research is it can be good but even then I think if someone is just inspired by a superficial aesthetic and wants to borrow that, that can create an interesting new thing as well. I do think you don’t want to be disrespectful of a culture (though I find what constitutes respectful is not very disagreed on these days: but I would never for example be deliberately insulting or belittling). Sometimes though I think we fetishized ‘authentic’. Authenticity can be good. A game or setting that models a culture in an authentic and accurate way is definitely something I often want. At the same time I don’t think authenticity should be a requirement of design or equated with respect. If you are only using things authentically and in their original context, you won’t do anything new with them (I,e. Blues never becomes rock, rock never becomes hard rock or heavy metal). So I think you need both approaches

 

[Micah Sweet]

So let's take it back to the OPs premise: raksashas exist in Eberron. Raksashas are Indian-coded due to their rw origin. There is no India analog in Eberron. How do you fix this?

One of the suggestions is that if the setting lacks a stand in for a particular culture, the monsters from that culture shouldn't be included. I've seen similar arguments about things like monks or samurai as well. Eberron, lacking analogs for real world cultures, shouldn't use those elements. I suggest if that's going to be the case, then break it up by culture so that it becomes part of the package deal. You want Chinese elements in your game? Get the China supplement. It's been researched and written by experts in Chinese culture and is faithful to the source material and respectful to the culture.

From a commercial standpoint, that is where this line of questioning leads to, for better or worse (worse, in my opinion). But I think it's worth noting that the OP was talking about their personal feelings and their personal game.

 

[Vaalingrade]

I just....

When the choice is "nuke it from orbit" vs. "do a little research," why do people feel "nuke it from orbit" is the more reasonable option?

Am I dreaming? Is this real?

Because the actual choice being advocated is 'change nothing, pay no attention to the issue', and so hyperbole is used to make it seem the 'do a little research' isn't an option.

 

[Lyxen]

I drew on the Ramakien (the thai version of Ramayana) and the art like the above in a game I made called Sertorius. My first encounter with it was through art at a Thai restaurant I worked at, which was reminiscent of the above but gold and black. And it really captured my imagination. I learned more about it and started finding artwork from temples in books. And the aesthetics were a big part of it.

Of course they were, and this is why attempts at divorcing D&D artefacts from culture are not only wrong (culture suppression) but also doomed to failure, because these representations are one of the major points in which the imagination is captured. In any case, thanks for your testimony, in my case I started from the Indian side of it, but the ramakien is incredible too, and I found further tellings of it in Burma, Cambodia and Laos too, and i think it's even wider than this.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Because the actual choice being advocated is 'change nothing, pay no attention to the issue', and so hyperbole is used to make it seem the 'do a little research' isn't an option.

I think hyperbole is being used on both sides here.

 

[Lyxen]

Dude, this isn't an American-owned forum.

Then please explain this: "And, honestly, a European, visiting Asia, really doesn't speak to what an American publisher predominantly selling into the American market ought to be doing at all."

Characterizing it as "offense" is a dogwhistle for the alt-right. It is not about people being 'offended', and the only peple who use that word in relation to this type of debate are alt-right actors trying to poison the discussion.

Of course, yeah, right, pardon me for not being a native english speaker, I suppose that's an offense too ?

This website is a northern European website. You're getting confused.

See above.

This "I'm a poor little French person being oppressed by Americans" routine of yours is getting tired. Nobody's buying it.

And what does this mean ? Do I need to send you credentials for you to stop being insulting ?

P.S.: Also, please ask yourself who regularly starts these censorship threads on the site, in contradiction to the site's policy ?

 

[Lyxen]

So let's take it back to the OPs premise: raksashas exist in Eberron. Raksashas are Indian-coded due to their rw origin. There is no India analog in Eberron. How do you fix this?

The question is: "What is the problem here that needs fixing ?" It it makes some people uncomfortable for reasons that I really can't fathom, then let them not use them. But let's not start talking of revising all settings and publications to censure everything which is culture related.