D&D General The Rakshasa and Genie Problem

[TheSword]

Again, I think we just disagree that this is much of a stereotype. Arab billionaire, definitely. That exists. I am not sure that is a negative stereotype though (there are plenty of movies and shows with lovable Arab billionaires). But I don't think there is a strong association in peoples minds with slavery and arabs. More recently perhaps because there is more awareness of the global slave trade. But I still don't think it is a strong association (there are lots of places where slavery still happens, and where things like indentured servitude still happens----I think a movie like that was just drawing on real world material rather than indulging a widespread stereotype: slavery is something that exists in the Arab world, so if you have a billionaire Arab villain, it is something a write might draw on....but you might also see it movies where the villain is from any place on a map of modern day slavery (just look it up, there are lots of places where it still exists in some form).

Taken was probably a bad example considering the actual slavers in that film were a white European crime cartel operating out of the most quintessentially European city in the world. And while there is a Barbary coast association with slavery. I’ll be honest I think that is very little known outside historians or classic literature (Robinson Crusoe, which are seen as very much of their time etc)

I agree that it’s not been demonstrated that accusations of slavery are a source of racism against Arabs in the modern world. They are struggling with far more pressing and challenging issues. It would also be a bit rich for white Europeans to be throwing any slavery accusations around. Probably why it sounds so ridiculous to our ears. If anything there is a western stereotype of Arabs being repressive and overly formal rather than sexual licentiousness that it’s being claimed is a stereotype. Not that it’s suggested anywhere Efreet actually embody that element at all. Either way it’s all a bit tenuous.

The question of whether genies should be slavers is an interesting one and ultimately comes down to design intent. That’s totally different to the claim that Efreet are a bad stereotype of Arabs because of tenuous link to slavery in the past.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Oh, wow. You just came up with an excellent justification for fur bikinis and loincloths in fantasy art for RPGs!

What do you mean, my Barbarian mankini is unrealistic?! (Edit: Evidently some do consider this image "NSFW," but I thought it wasn't. Perhaps do not click this link if you have any concern about that. I just appreciate it because it's a dude for once.)

 

[Remathilis]

It's the only one being endorsed under all the hyperbole.

I've advocated for

• Creating a new unique all-setting akin to Golarion that would have proper cultural areas for all monsters
• Creating setting books for various cultures that place each monster in it's proper context.
• Removing the cultural elements from these monsters and making them generic.
• Starting over if none of that works.

You've suggested making efreet something that doesn't represent what they were in the original culture or replacing them with generic fire demons (who will have multiple cultures and not actually be evil).

To be honest, I've found this discussion with you unpleasant, so I'll be disengaging. Have fun arguing with the strawman you've created.

 

[Justice and Rule]

Taken was probably a bad example considering the actual slavers in that film were a white European crime cartel operating out of the most quintessentially European city in the world. And while there is a Barbary coast association with slavery. I’ll be honest I think that is very little known outside historians or classic literature (Robinson Crusoe, which are seen as very much of their time etc)

The main bad guy is literally a Sheihk who buys young women. The slaver image isn't just the selling, but also the keeping, which is pretty clear in the whole genie entry.

 

[Helldritch]

What do you mean, my Barbarian mankini is unrealistic?! (Image is SFW, but slightly risque. I just appreciate it because it's a dude for once.)

And quite a dude by the way. Arnold would be jealous.

 

[Vaalingrade]

You've suggested making efreet something that doesn't represent what they were in the original culture or replacing them with generic fire demons (who will have multiple cultures and not actually be evil).

Hey look, things I never said!

In fact, I never said anything about efreet in general. I suggested not having monocultures and singular alignments (with the unspoken implication of not using alignment at all) and not having them be the only representatives of the equivalent of the culture they were lifted from.

 

[MGibster]

What do you mean, my Barbarian mankini is unrealistic?! (Image is SFW, but slightly risque. I just appreciate it because it's a dude for once.)

That is not SFW and I'd likely write someone up if they had that displayed where their coworkers could see it.

 

[Justice and Rule]

You've suggested making efreet something that doesn't represent what they were in the original culture or replacing them with generic fire demons (who will have multiple cultures and not actually be evil).

To be honest, I've found this discussion with you unpleasant, so I'll be disengaging. Have fun arguing with the strawman you've created.

I think you are (poorly) remembering what I said, because I did advocate for changing Efreets to something that they were actually closer to in myth while moving away from the bad stereotypes they already represent.

So yeah, you really shouldn't be talking about strawmen here.

 

[TheSword]

The main bad guy is literally a Sheihk who buys young women. The slaver image isn't just the selling, but also the keeping, which is pretty clear in the whole genie entry.

Sold to him by white Europeans.

I hope you see the irony that you’re saying that the sheikh is a stereotypical Arab because he’s involved in slavery… something he’s being sold by white Europeans. With their history of 400 years of the slave trade.

If a stereotype is applied to everyone, it’s ceases to be a stereotype.

I think people understand now that modern slavery happens in sweatshops in your local city, cleaners trapped expensive townhouses and young women sold the promise of a better life. It’s universal, it’s happening round the corner from you and isn’t restricted to any creed or culture.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

That is not SFW and I'd likely write someone up if they had that displayed where their coworkers could see it.

Do you work in a monastery?