D&D General If you had to split up Dexterity...

[Rogerd1]

it does not matter what you call it.

Dex gives you broad or "base" ability. then focuses/skills give extra bonus to more narrow part of that same ability.

Which is the entire point of the OP post, if you read it, and that it shouldn't be that way.

 

[le Redoutable]

Warhammer Fantasy splits it into Ballistic Skill, Agility (full body movement), Dexterity (fine motor skills), and a separate Initiative characteristic. While I think that's too much for D&D, I think Agility and Dexterity could be an okay distinction. Or just putting different levels of proficiency in related skills.

perhaps, concerning Agility and Dexterity, one would use arms while the other would use legs

 

[le Redoutable]

It was done in 1980 with dragonquest.
Agility was your " legs" and Dexterity your "arms".

I have never liked the d20 Dex as the Uber stat.

sorry I hadn't looked this far

 

[le Redoutable]

You could split it a dozen different ways, and every one would be wrong. According to someone, anyway.

IRL I'm solidly built, with broad shoulders. Heavy upper body (I look a lot stronger than I am.) I used to be a professional magician. Agile, I'm not. I used to be able to walk a tightrope and ride a unicycle, but that was forty years ago.

My manual dexterity is off-the-chart for most people.

I can't hit a basket in basketball and never could. So my hand-eye coordination sucks.

So what part of that odd mix is Ability Score and what part is practiced skill? To make an item "pop" into existence in my fingers, I have to bring it from a hidden location to final view in less than 1/15th of a second. At that speed the human eye can't register the motion (medical fact involving the synapses in the optic nerve.). The coin, or whatever, is "just there" - Poof. Magic. While the skill is required, most people simply don't have the nerve and/or muscle speed to pull that off, so that's Ability Score.

Even as a kid I couldn't hit a trash can with a piece of paper. With practice I can throw a playing card and hit a small target across the room, but that doesn't translate to accuracy with anything else. I'm a decent shot with a bow, and have a few minor archery tournament prizes to my name. So my hand/eye disability is "Ability score", and my archery and playing-card accuracy are simply enough skill training to overcome the bad score.

Similarly, tightrope and unicycle are trained skills, not evidence of an exceptional ability score. I'm not clumsy on my feet, but I'm not anything exceptional either.

you could define three types of skills:
overall skills which apply to all skills
stat-based skills
individual skills
( taken from Champions 4th )

 

[le Redoutable]

what about Manoeuvrability, Ossature ( used strongly by contortionists ) ?

 

[MattW]

It's true. "Dexterity" does cover a wide range of abilities. A ballet dancer and a watchmaker would (presumably) both have high Dexterity, but their abilities would be very different - and there is no obvious reason for either of them to be good with ranged weapons. OTOH, a paralympic archer (in a wheelchair) might be extremely dexterous and accurate.

If you want to be more realistic AND your game needs to split the Dexterity ability, perhaps it would be into 3 categories

1. Movement (to include athletics/dancing and perhaps a defence bonus)
2. Hand-eye coordination (fine motor skills)
3. Accuracy (this affects thrown weapons, firearms and so on)

 

[DND_Reborn]

If you want to be more realistic AND your game needs to split the Dexterity ability, perhaps it would be into 3 categories

1. Movement (to include athletics/dancing and perhaps a defence bonus)
2. Hand-eye coordination (fine motor skills)
3. Accuracy (this affects thrown weapons, firearms and so on)

Back in AD&D days I did something like this but for all six ability scores.

The idea was each ability had three sub-scores which ranged from 1-6. You totaled them to get your overall score.

For example, these might be the break-down for a ballet dancer and watchmaker:

Ballet Dancer
DEX 15
Agility 6
Precision 4
Reaction 5

Watchmaker
DEX 12
Agility 3
Precision 6
Reaction 3

 

[Cadence]

It's true. "Dexterity" does cover a wide range of abilities. A ballet dancer and a watchmaker would (presumably) both have high Dexterity, but their abilities would be very different - and there is no obvious reason for either of them to be good with ranged weapons. OTOH, a paralympic archer (in a wheelchair) might be extremely dexterous and accurate.

If you want to be more realistic AND your game needs to split the Dexterity ability, perhaps it would be into 3 categories

1. Movement (to include athletics/dancing and perhaps a defence bonus)
2. Hand-eye coordination (fine motor skills)
3. Accuracy (this affects thrown weapons, firearms and so on)

Back in AD&D days I did something like this but for all six ability scores.

The idea was each ability had three sub-scores which ranged from 1-6. You totaled them to get your overall score.

For example, these might be the break-down for a ballet dancer and watchmaker:

Ballet Dancer
DEX 15
Agility 6
Precision 4
Reaction 5

Watchmaker
DEX 12
Agility 3
Precision 6
Reaction 3

Which of the three would you put: melee to hit, dodging, parrying, and initiative under?

 

[Cadence]

it does not matter what you call it.

Dex gives you broad or "base" ability. then focuses/skills give extra bonus to more narrow part of that same ability.

Which is the entire point of the OP post, if you read it, and that it shouldn't be that way.

Right, my mental block with it is that it just seems to cover too much (finesse to hit, missile to hit, imitative, ac, and a bunch of skills that aren't particularly related at all).

 

[jasper]

Dexterity.. DEXT ERITY. There is be splitted.​