D&D 5E Point buy vs roll

[Parmandur]

Better primary and secondary scores, better skills, saves, likely more HP, more options, all positives no negatives along with far more options for MAD classes and multclasding.

Seems significant to me.

The difference is real, but in play not overwhelmingly so. Good and bad rolls at the table still account for more either way

 

[Lyxen]

Understood. For my groups, we usually have some DM-mediated back and forth to get a basic idea of what everyone's playing ahead of time, just for that integration piece.

We usually do too, still my personal feeling is that it's still better to have something happen in the first few adventures and be able to say "it reminds me of my mother" and improvise about that, for example. Or simply to build a common history of the character that is in a sense more important than a set of distinct back stories with little in common.

Thanks for your insight!

No worries, nice talk.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

I ran it again 10,000 times, just to get the average difference per table of 6. On average there was around a 25 point difference. I picked a sample at random:

20 point buy: 15, 13, 13, 10, 8, 7​

45 point buy: 17, 14, 14, 14, 13, 12​

The 20-point buy would be a dead character to me, no matter what edition it was for. For 5E, drop the 15 to a 13 and raise the 7 and 8 to 10 each and I would try to make it work.

The 45-point buy would be a decent starting character back in the days of AD&D and quite powerful for a 5E character.


On the topic, I prefer to try and make a system that gives PCs a lot of odd-numbered stats, in order to encourage the use of the half-feats, the ones where you get a +1 to a stat and some other useful feature.

As for rolling stats, I have not done that since the early days of 3.5 and even in the early 80's with AD&D, no DM ever used the "roll 3d6 in order" method.

 

[Baron Opal II]

The next time I start a game, I'm going to have everyone roll 21d6 and then assemble the six attributes with three dice each.

Hear about that once, thought it would be interesting to try.

 

[Octiron]

Ah, the weekly roll vs. point buy thread.

I like to use BARFLIP, or GRIDFLIP - two methods for rolling but still getting reliably decent scores. 13th age has a similar method (also in the video).

 

[CleverNickName]

We use the 4d6 Method, but I feel I should elaborate.

First, I let everyone pick a magic item from Table B, and add it to their starting equipment for free.
Then, they roll their stats using the 4d6 method.
Once a player has 6 numbers, I will add up all of the ability modifiers.

• If the sum of the ability modifiers is +4 or lower, they can reroll them OR they can keep them and start with a feat. (No character can start with more than one feat. If you're already getting a feat at 1st level, you can't get another one by choosing the Variant Human, for example.)
• If the sum of the ability modifiers is +9 or higher, they can reroll them OR they can keep them and forfeit their Table B (or sometimes Table F, depending on the campaign) magic item.
• If the sum of the ability modifiers is +5 to +8, they have to keep the numbers they rolled.

Thus, super-high stats are balanced by the lack of a starting magic item, and super-low stats are balanced by the addition of a feat. But most often, characters get to start with fairly even stats and a Table B magic item.

 

[Lanefan]

I agree with that, but if it's a long campaign and you are unlucky at rolling, it can really suck for years.

This assumes no character turnover. I always assume there'll be ongoing character turnover in a long campaign be it due to characters retiring, dying, cycling in and out of parties, and so forth.

Luck is not "equal footing". It's just random.

Luck does not result in equal footing; the equal footing lies in the randomness itself.

 

[Lanefan]

I can't remember when I last saw a PC with +2 average across the board. Average 14+ on every stat is very, very unlikely

My first 3e character had this, or close. His lowest stat was 12, his highest 18, and I think his net total bonus was around +11 or so.

Didn't last nearly as long as my second one, whose net total bonus was either +1 or +2 (I forget which now).

 

[Oofta]

This assumes no character turnover. I always assume there'll be ongoing character turnover in a long campaign be it due to characters retiring, dying, cycling in and out of parties, and so forth.

Luck does not result in equal footing; the equal footing lies in the randomness itself.

Okay, go into a place of business and ask for a job. They advertise that it's $10.50 per hour. After you sign the papers, they ask you to roll 3d6. That's your wage. Are people working there on equal footing?

 

[Vaalingrade]

Okay, go into a place of business and ask for a job. They advertise that it's $10.50 per hour. After you sign the papers, they ask you to roll 3d6. That's your wage. Are people working there on equal footing?

It does it you keep dying and reincarnating until you roll a living wage.

Just ignore the pile of corpses you needed to stand on to bet there.