D&D 5E A Compilation of all the Race Changes in Monsters of the Multiverse

Over on Reddit, user KingJackel went through the video leak which came out a few days ago and manually compiled a list of all the changes to races in the book. The changes are quite extensive, with only the fairy and harengon remaining unchanged. The book contains 33 races in total, compiled and updated from previous Dungeons & Dragons books...

Over on Reddit, user KingJackel went through the video leak which came out a few days ago and manually compiled a list of all the changes to races in the book. The changes are quite extensive, with only the fairy and harengon remaining unchanged. The book contains 33 races in total, compiled and updated from previous Dungeons & Dragons books.

greg-rutkowski-monsters-of-the-multiverse-1920.jpg



 

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"Trance
  • When you now finish a long rest, this trait allows you to gain two proficiencies that you don't have. Each must be in a weapon or tool of your choice that is in the PHB. These proficiencies last until you take a long rest."
Is it weird that this excludes skills?
No? I think it's a balance issue. Being able to pick two skills you don't have and flex them daily is pretty powerful - I think that there may be a race that has it now, but if so I bet the same race doesn't have as good other racials as Elves generally do.

Whereas being able to pick tool/weapon proficiencies isn't likely to be as powerful. If you pick a weapon, odds are, you'll be sticking with that for session after session, locking down one of those two slots (and theoretically you could get into an awkward situation where you took a long rest, got attacked halfway through, and hadn't yet "re-learned" that weapon so weren't proficient - but I think it would be a mean DM that enforced that). If you pick tools, well, it's more likely to be flavourful than particularly powerful, and potentially just makes the group work a little better, rather than treading on toes, as flexing skills might.

EDIT - I was thinking of Githyanki - they get one skill and one weapon/tool, and yeah I think that's less good than what Elves get when all features are considered.
 

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billd91

Not your screen monkey (he/him)
That is not what I said. But go on...

Of course you can balance an extra +x to strength as explained in the post above. But the way 5e did was the worst of both worlds. Limiting design space by applying +2 Str and +1 Con to strong races leaving nothing for remaining stats. So while smaller people can be intelligent, charismatic, even strong as mountain dwarves, big people can only be strong? So either put more than +3 or 4 total in the mix or take it out. They took it out annd that is fine, adding significant bonuses and balancing it with other thing is fine, but leaving as it was probably not. (I personally don´t care that much actually, but your argument that not giving +2 Str breaks everything needs to be refuted, because it does not and is actually for the better.)
Funny - "Limiting design space by applying +2 Str and +1 Con to strong races..." [Emphasis mine]
I assume what you mean to put in there is "big races" since where else would you put an ASI for a strong race but in strength?

But you're wrong in assuming anyone feels that a big race has to have those bonuses and only those bonuses when being designed. A big race could be relatively thin and willowy and not get a bonus to strength at all - that would definitely be a different design. Moreover, a firbolg may have a +1 to Str, but their higher ASI is a +2 to Wis. It doesn't really feel like the design space around them is too constricted even if the secondary ASI is to strength. Goliaths have the +2 Str, +1 Con because that's a significant element of their concept. In Pathfinder, elves are a little bigger than humans on average - they kept the Dex bonus and didn't have to take on a Str bonus because they followed a different concept.
And my take on these bonuses is they're a better fit for the overall racial package rather than free floating for the individual - which is why I lean into the archetypes, as Tasha's calls it.
 

billd91

Not your screen monkey (he/him)
"Trance
  • When you now finish a long rest, this trait allows you to gain two proficiencies that you don't have. Each must be in a weapon or tool of your choice that is in the PHB. These proficiencies last until you take a long rest."
Is it weird that this excludes skills?
Weirder than existing as a feature in the first place?
 

EzekielRaiden

Follower of the Way
To me the purpose of the rules is to represent the fictional reality. This doesn't mean they thy must do so in excruciating detail or that things couldn't be abstracted. But the underlying fiction should be the starting point. When I play a RPG I have no interest engaging in a game that is disconnected from the fiction. If I wanted to do that, I could play Tetris while listening an audio novel.
Who said it's "disconnected"? There's still clearly a connection. It's just not connected in this one specific way--a way that, as I've said, isn't statistically accurate, and as others have said, has some potentially unpleasant subtext.

I am really not following you there. I have no idea whether it is a character choice in fiction has to do with anything. It is all player choice in reality. And it is not like people in the setting choose to be porn into sorcerous bloodline either...
Why should racial ability modifiers have to follow the expected norms of a species when, by definition, the player is opting into playing not only a specific being (who may not have any specific relation to the norm, because that's how variability works)? With spells, there is a clear relationship between why there are some silos and not others in both fictional terms and design terms. With ability scores, there is no such clear relationship, because ability scores aren't traditions and tools developed by people, they are abstractions applied by game rules. Spells are, in several relevant ways, completely unlike ability scores--and, more importantly, have absolutely no relation to either verisimilitude (since, by definition, they can't resemble anything true since spells do not exist IRL) or problems of biased representation of the disenfranchised IRL (though, as noted, biased representation of such groups is unrelated to my argument).

So why did they need to change how the races work if adding the custom lineage would have fixed the thing?
Because some people will have more in common with the "expected average" than others? I thought that was obvious from my phrasing. These are different levels of conformity--because no population conforms perfectly to any set of averages, no matter how wide you try to make that average. That's why I keep harping on this "there is no average person" thing. Nobody conforms perfectly, so we should actively prepare for quite a range of deviation, particularly if we're already looking at a population that deviates in some particular way...like how the vast majority of ANY race you consider won't be adventurers.

Sure. Exactly as I said earlier. Class is what dictates most of your ability scores, not the species.
I mean, if we're going for our personal preferences, mine is to do what 13th Age did. You get a choice of one of two ability scores from your race, and another one of two from your class, so long as you don't get the same stat twice. E.g. Wizard provides +2 Int or +2 Wis, and High Elf provides +2 Int or +2 Cha. This means "iconic" pairs, e.g. Dragonborn Paladin, are locked into only one option, because both their class and their race offer +2 Cha or +2 Str. The player is always able to choose a stat boost that is valuable to them, so race is informative rather than determinative.

And that's really the whole point here. People are saying, "Race should not determine so much about what a person is like." I have tackled this from the facts of the statistics of populations, rather than appeals to morality or sentiment: It is a simple, straight fact that the amount of measurement present in things like D&D ability scores precludes the existence of more than a small portion of any given race ACTUALLY meeting all those standards. An actual simulation of a real biological race would have much too much variability, even if you were sampling from the whole population, and not just a HIGHLY divergent subgroup (adventurers).

If you desire simulation that produces results consistent with the actual dynamics of observable populations, then you should not desire that every PC race has a neat, clean, specific set of traits they all share. Even if you looked at their entire population, you would not actually find that they met these requirements. Indeed, you would find they failed them far more often than they succeeded--even though the average would still objectively describe the central tendency of their population.

I can houserule things, and I don't mind doing a little bit of it. But there is a point where it is just easier to use a different game than even create one from scratch, than trying to fix a game that is going into different direction than you want.
I honestly fail to see how "racial ability scores are fixed to +X/+Y in my game" is such an onerous change, but okay, if that's the straw that broke the camel's back...

My thesis is that D&D's appeal is in big part based on being able to play easily recognisable archetypes, and if people start to feel that the mechanics actually do not reflect the archetypes, it will lead to disengagement. At some point people might say "What you mean that my massive half-orc that looks like Hulk is no stronger than a halfling?" or "What you mean that my Legolas clone is no more dextrous than a dwarf?"
First: I fail to see how this change prevents "play[ing] easily recognizable archetypes." At most, it makes those archetypes less enforced, which is very different from preventing playing them, and definitely not the same as making it harder to play them. (Removing a law that requires all sports cars to be painted red has no effect on whether it is easier or harder to buy one.)

Second: You're pulling a bit of a bait and switch there. You're speaking of a singular character, and then comparing them to the collective of all X, for some other race X. That's not correct. The correct statement would be, "What do you mean that my Legolas clone is no more dextrous than the most dextrous a dwarf can be?" Because that's really what's going on here. You've painted this as EVERY dwarf is dextrous, EVERY halfling has incredible mighty thews, and neither is true. Instead, any given dwarf MIGHT be as dextrous as your Legolas clone--but odds are good they won't be. Any given halfling MIGHT be as strong as your massife half-orc that looks like Hulk--but odds are good they won't be. And that's EXACTLY the situation we already had, we just forced players to jump through dumb hoops to get there. The race suggests certain things, but does not mandate them--because the real variability of real populations is, provably and statistically, too broad to be correctly captured by such mandates.
 


Faolyn

(she/her)
Yes, I'm all on board with everyone being capable in their own way! But that's not what's happening, what's happening is that everyone must be capable in the same way!

I want both halflings and goliaths to be able to be capable melee warriors, but I want them to feel and play differently! I want goliaths to overpower enemies with their strength and bulk, whilst halflings nimbly use their size and agility for advantage.
So what's stopping that?

As I keep saying, floating ASIs are for PCs only. As the DM, you can give every single other halfling and goliath whatever stats you want. What this means is that, if you're the DM, every single halfling in the world--except the PC--will always nimbly use their size and agility for advantage, and if you're a player, then your halfling will nimbly use their size and agility for advantage. And, if you're the DM, then every single goliath in the world--except the PC--will always overpower enemies with their strength and bulk, as will your goliath PC.

As it is, a mere +2 in a stat isn't enough to enforce powerful goliaths and nimble halflings. It doesn't actually mean anything, really, because D&D doesn't have the right sort of rules for different types of combat. A halfling with Dex 20 and a rapier has the exact same attack and damage modifiers as a goliath with Str 20 and a longsword. Other than how the player narrates their actions, there is literally no difference between the two, because of the rules.

Level Up, with their fighting maneuvers, does have these sort of rules, and if you really wanted you could make a rule saying that certain races get a +1 or even +2 bonus to their maneuver save DC with certain traditions. There's 10 traditions, which means that if you really wanted to, you could give every race/heritage a "preferred tradition" (with humans and maybe half-humans, presumably, being able to choose their tradition). Personally, though, I'd view that as a cultural thing rather than a racial thing.
 


This is a literally irrational/illogical argument. "A change" isn't the issue. Balance is. Balance is always, always, always, always, always a measure of degree (that's literally what it means), not an absolutist "Was there a change yes/no". The minor changes you can make with free ASIs only improve balance and predictability from the design side, as I noted. They're actually a balance positive (from the design side, again). You can't "swap racial features", you still have to pick a package of abilities. Are some better than others? Yes, but that was already the case. What's different now is people have far more flexibility as to which package they choose, because they don't need to also align the ASIs.

As for Dwarves specifically, I think they're going to get nerfed with DND2024. Right now, they're in a sort of beta/limbo state, where they can adopt the unfinished/unbalanced Tasha's rules and that's kind of advantageous to them, but if you saw the changes to races with the new monster book, many were pulling races up, power-wise (at least arguably), quite a few were "neutral-ish" (but basically positive) and a handful were nerfs to outliers. Mountain Dwarf is one such outlier and when we see the 2024 PHB, will likely get the same treatment (maybe we'll see it even earlier).

You can't mix-and-match racial features either, which is what you were suggesting with classes. Anyway, again balance is not binary. It's a matter of degree - and being able to change classes significantly would have vastly more impact that this does, and that's only going to become more obvious with time as the PHB races etc. get pulled into line.
You can now mix and match best trait for the class with the best ASI for the class. That is more powerful exactly in the same way being able to mix and match class features would. Which is to say, possibly a bit but not much. Also, as you seem to imply, the starting point wasn't balanced anyway, so extra freedom might actually increase balance. For example if Monks and Rangers were able to replace some of their class lustre features with better ones, it might actually improve balance between classes.

But the balance argument is not true anyway. That is not the reason classes or races exist. You could relatively easily decouple features from classes, and put them in piles players could choose from at each level. resulting roughly balanced characters. No, the reason why races and
classes have fixed set of things is thematic niche protection.

Re: justify, sure, but that's just aesthetics. That's just taste. It's not a rational argument that something needs to be a certain way. It's not even an argument for verisimilitude, because there's no consistency that Halflings are weak, in fact, through five+ editions of D&D, Halflings have always been shockingly strong for their absolutely diminutive size (literally the same size as an average 5 year old). Making it so they're 100% as strong as a human, instead of 95% as strong (literally the pre-Tashas 5E situation thanks to the human +1 across the board - in 1E is was 94.5%) is just not "breaking verisimilitude". That 5% gap closing might aesthetically offend you, but that's not meaningful verisimilitude. Even to call it a fig leaf would be too kind.
It is bizarre that people who seem to think that this difference is meaningless also adamantly want to get rid of it. Certainly it actually represent significant and meaningful difference in strength, otherwise many people wouldn't be saying that character is literally unplayable if they cannot get that extra bonus!

And it is not just about halflings. We can indeed claim in fiction that they're super strong so that they're as strong and humans. And minotaur's are weaker than they look, so they're no stronger than humans. And once you do it for dozen of wildly different species, it becomes absurd.

At some point, you need to recognise D&D is not a simulation, so the value of verisimilitude must be weighed against other factors. Sure, we could have special rules saying "Halflings can't put their ASI points in STR" or the like, but that sort of thing will just lead directly back to the problems D&D had before, as someone decides that Borcs (who are not orcs) can't put their ASI points into INT and suddenly thinks start looking unfortunate, and it just complicates matters to no useful end. It's such a tiny and arguable "benefit", and it's an utterly needless complication.
And someone could write an offensive racial trait. (an they have) So better get rid of racial traits. I'm sure someone could write an offensive class feature too, so better get rid of those as well!
 

That is more powerful exactly in the same way being able to mix and match class features would.
I know you think you're making a persuasive argument, but you're really just proving my point over and over lol.

We're talking a tiny gain, next to potentially gigantic ones, and that was already possible, you just lost the ASI - and if you happened to have a class where both the ASI and the features matched up, you were more powerful. Now it's more even, because when there's a double-mismatch, or a partial match, you're no longer penalized as harshly, so the gap between the "worst race" for a class, and the "best race" is objectively, unarguably, significantly smaller. You can't even deny it.

Also, the reality is, from people actually using this, that most people are actually picking races they like, rather than just the best features. I've seen it in action. Before, the ASI was considered so important by many players, that it dominated race decisions for people who min-maxed even slightly.
But the balance argument is not true anyway. That is not the reason classes or races exist. You could relatively easily decouple features from classes, and put them in piles players could choose from at each level. resulting roughly balanced characters. No, the reason why races and
classes have fixed set of things is thematic niche protection.
It's absolutely both. Pretending it's one or the other entirely would be laughable. The niche protection requires balance. Thinking it doesn't is also laughable, and clearly demonstrated to be absolutely false by 3.XE, which failed to balance classes, whilst trying to do niche protection, and thus completely failed at niche protection.
For example if Monks and Rangers were able to replace some of their class lustre features with better ones, it might actually improve balance between classes.
This is a weird fantasy that has nothing to do with what we're discussing. It's also obviously false, because if you allowed those two, you'd allow other classes, and imbalance would be back. But there's no "swapping" happening here. You just keep saying there is because you don't seem to actually understand how races work now. I mean, maybe you do, but your language choices and comparisons suggest otherwise.
It is bizarre that people who seem to think that this difference is meaningless also adamantly want to get rid of it.
I literally explained why, in some detail, and you don't seem to be referencing that, so the only bizarre thing here is that. If you disagreed it would be one thing but you seem to have just missed it.
And once you do it for dozen of wildly different species, it becomes absurd.
Then D&D has been absurd since 2E, because it's been this way since then (and only not earlier because that's the first time D&D had "dozens" of races). Because this has been the case since 2E. You're looking for some other RPG, some kind of simulationist one. Rolemaster maybe? 5E has never been, and never will be simulationist, nor extremely concerned with verisimilitude.
And someone could write an offensive racial trait. (an they have) So better get rid of racial traits. I'm sure someone could write an offensive class feature too, so better get rid of those as well!
This is kind of funny, but again you don't seem to have actually looked at what I've said, /shrug I guess. "You do you" and all that. But if you want to discuss things, you need to like, actually respond to the other person, rather than ignoring what they're saying. 🤷‍♂️
 

Remathilis

Legend
Sure, that certainly is true. But whatever the archetypes are, I think the game needs to mechanically support them and offer niche protection.
Sure. The game should protect half-orcs as the strong/tough race (+2 Str/+1 Con). They can do that by getting rid of orcs, goliaths, minotaurs, mountain dwarves, and all the other races that were a combination of Str/Con modifiers.
 

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