D&D 5E Levels 1-4 are "Training Wheels?"

[Cadence]

Right.

And I hate the former. I hate the idea of 'magic is special and rare because to me it paradoxically makes the world less fantastic.

Well does the DMG have good news for you then!!! (As long as you're DMing anyway, in which case it enourages you to have them as common as you want in your world, with Eberron as an example).

D&D 5E - Levels 1-4 are "Training Wheels?"

Man, I hate the insistence that there's no such thing as 'magic marts'. If there's nothing people won't buy or sell. There have been sellers of mummies (for eating!), military weaponry, and islands with storefronts and everything. IF magic items were a thing maybe they wouldn't be stored on...

www.enworld.org

 

[robus]

Jumping in at the end, so apologies if I’m restating something already posted.

If I look at D&D through the lens of “The Heroes Journey”, I look at the first few levels as “the normal world”. This is where we get to know the characters and see the world they live in and the everyday trials and tribulations. At level 5 (or whatever you choose) an inciting event occurs that launches the adventurers on to a path of heroic adventure. So rather than training wheels I feel like we should think of it as the grounding, this is the opportunity to develop things like relationships that the players care about and can thus be deliciously threatened.

You can see WotC sort of trying this with some adventures, SKT and Strahd for example, but to my mind they whiff it quite badly and everyone just feels like they‘re being rushed through to the adventure. Part of the problem is not requiring some thought to the party itself and why they are together. A random group of adventurers is not a satisfactory starting point.

 

[Scott Christian]

In the default D&D world represented by the adventures, there's tons of magic and yet no one sells it because 5e was initially trying to appeal to DMs who wanted total control over magic items so they just straight up didn't put prices on them--which again makes no sense when the stuff is both valuable and relatively plentiful, yet there's no market for it.

Here is one way to look at it. First, one can assume some things, like healing potions for example, are not magical. You could narrate it either way. Second, and the more important part, how many magic items does an adventurer get during their life? I mean, an adventurer is literally the cream of the crop. By level 10 they are incredibly powerful, able to wipe out hundreds of minions in a day or two. How many do they have by level 10? Two? Three? Four if the DM's feeling generous.
So that is three or four magic items (or less) for a person with (often by that time) enormous wealth and incredible power.

That seems pretty rare to me.

 

[Minigiant]

The thing is you both couldn't be more right about most of this, he's commenting on how that perspective from that player doesn't make sense, and you're rightly pointing out that lvl 5 makes significant, noticeable changes and to the players that can feel like a huge difference.

My main issue is that these things the example person given by the OP complains about don't actually have to do with lower or higher levels and have way more to do with play style. There's literally nothing that stops a GM from creating whatever play style he/she wants regardless of the player's level, every edition of D&D has not only permitted but informed about and actively encouraged GMs to see their material as nothing but helpful guidelines, the creator does not know the GM's or what kind of game is being run.

Hell I don't even use initiative. Why in a world this free anyone is so meta about the mechanics and slavish to the mechanics that they'd complain "the game isn't good at these levels" instead of "hey Susan can we play a more heroic kind of adventure" beats me.

That's why I stated it was independent of DM.

The jump from level 4 to level 5 makes you feel more powerful, gives you scope, and allows you to make active pressure on the world.
It does it whether the DM is Alice, Bob, Charlie, Darla, or Edi.

And individul DM can make it happen earlier at levels 1-4. But they can't really prevent hat feeling by level 5 without running an adventure that would be killing them well before.

 

[Vaalingrade]

That seems pretty rare to me.

So are fabrigee eggs, fossils, dynastic artifacts and delicious mummies.

 

[Lanefan]

Here is one way to look at it. First, one can assume some things, like healing potions for example, are not magical. You could narrate it either way. Second, and the more important part, how many magic items does an adventurer get during their life? I mean, an adventurer is literally the cream of the crop. By level 10 they are incredibly powerful, able to wipe out hundreds of minions in a day or two. How many do they have by level 10? Two? Three? Four if the DM's feeling generous.
So that is three or four magic items (or less) for a person with (often by that time) enormous wealth and incredible power.

That seems pretty rare to me.

This depends entirely on the DM along with a) what particular modules/adventures she runs and b) how common she sees adventurers as being in the setting, other than the PCs.

If she runs nothing but WotC 5e adventure books then yes, the PCs aren't going to have much magic even at mid levels.

But if she converts and runs a string of 1e or 3e/d20 modules, in comparison with those above by mid levels he PCs will have loads of magic.

And if adventurers are fairly common in the setting then as each of them slowly accrete magic items there'll doubtless be some that aren't of much use, and thus available for sale or trade, while if the PCs are pretty much the only adventurers this won't be the case.

 

[Lanefan]

That's why I stated it was independent of DM.

The jump from level 4 to level 5 makes you feel more powerful, gives you scope, and allows you to make active pressure on the world.
It does it whether the DM is Alice, Bob, Charlie, Darla, or Edi.

This does point at a corollary topic, I suppose: is it a good idea that the jump between 4 and 5 is so much greater than the jump between any other two levels nearby (e.g. 3-4, or 6-7)? Or would a smoother progression where the jump between any two levels represents a more similar increase in power/ability be more desirable?

In other words, does making the concept of "tiers" more obvious accomplish anything? Are tiers even necessary? Discuss.

 

[Lanefan]

So are fabrigee eggs, fossils, dynastic artifacts and delicious mummies.

On the assumption that Fabrigee eggs can't be made any more, there's one significant difference between any of these examples and magic items in a game setting: in a typical game setting magic items are still being made.

There's always a trickle (or flow?) of new supply in magic items; unlike fossils, of which even though they haven't all been found yet there is a hard cap on the potential supply; or Fabrigee eggs where that hard cap on supply is an already-known amount. And that trickle affects the rarity: something that cannot be made any more is by default rarer than something that can, all other things being equal.

 

[Older Beholder]

With regards to my OP, I wanted to say I quoted the player, and it's certainly her take on what makes the game fun, where she finds enjoyment in the game. She prefers a game with high action and combat and isn't big on role-playing or intrigue.
The post or thread wasn't intended to be critical of any players or preferences. I was just looking for suggestions of how to address her concern and to see if it was a common view amongst your players.

I can understand why some players might enjoy levels 5 and up over the early stages. Especially if they’ve had a run of campaigns that didn’t make it much past level 5.

Personally, I think spending some time playing the higher tiers is the quickest way to build an appreciation for the lower levels.

The question is: do the other players feel the same? If they all want the same thing, maybe next time start at higher than 1st level or level up quicker.

The main argument I’d give for starting at level 1 is that it gives everyone a chance to get to know the ins and outs of all their abilities. But this might not satisfy a player with fireballs on their mind.

 

[Lanefan]

... a player with fireballs on their mind.

Someone has got to do a rewording of "Georgia on My Mind" for this!

"Got fireballs on my mind..."