D&D 5E Levels 1-4 are "Training Wheels?"

Nebulous

Legend
Last night a player commented: "Levels 1-4 are just training wheels. The game doesn't even start until 5th level. Unless you're playing D&D for the first time, you should just start at 5th level."

Now, she hasn't been playing for ages - probably just around 5 years. I would expect it to take longer than that to become that jaded to low-level play.

Do you agree? If not, how do you address this? Start at 5th level? Speed through Levels 1-4? House rules to give more power or better options?
I totally disagree. I love 1st-4th level games as DM. This is the only time when players have to solve problems without relying on magic shortcuts. They think outside the box to survive scenarios where AC, hit points and spells and damage output won't save their butts. They get creative. They get desperate. They get ingenious sometimes, and I love it. I also quit running DnD by 10th level, so I am certainly not going to squander the first half of it. I don't even use XP, haven't since early 3e. I slow their progress and enjoy low level play.
 

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Lyxen

Great Old One
Depends on the city. In one large city in my setting where a number of PCs have quasi-based themselves the mercenaries' guild (including gladiators, it's a thing there) has several hundred members plus a constant stream of visitors and transients. Most of the several hundred members aren't adventurers but the visitors and transients almost always are; and many of the non-adventurers still have a level or two of Fighter to them, built up over the years of doing what they do.

That would be OK for the largest cities, but there are not that many of them...

That's another thing 1e tends to do: quite a few items are restricted as to who can use them, most often by class but sometimes by species or a stat requirement. Further, in 1e a Fighter is proficient only with a small number of weapons chosen by the player (something I very much like), meaning there's going to be times when the magic weapon you've just found ain't gonna do you much good.

Yes, I remember that, and I understand the greater need for magic items trading, just hoping that you see my more 5e perspective as well.

Yeah, I'm distinguishing between small-a artificer (a person who makes magic items) and capital-A Artificer (the class). I probably haven't been clear enough on this; it's just that artificer is a good term to mean "person who makes and-or enchants magic items".

Ah, OK, let's get rid of the name, then, I hate it as much as the class. :)

I kinda prefer the easy come, easy go idea - that way, you're always getting new toys! :)

I remember that about 1e indeed. :)

Both the 3e and 4e strict-formulaic approaches overlook one very important thing: the item's actual usefulness in the field. In 3e, for example, a Wand of Cure Light Wounds is hella more useful than a Wand of Grease yet as they each replicate a 1st-level spell the formula sets their costs as the same

Yes, it was indeed part of the problem, and wands were an additional problem with the way they were implemented.

1e's pricing at least kinda looks at the field-usefulness piece but it's not perfect, and some famous typos in the DMG don't help either. :)

I remember that, after the years and the years we spend playing it, we had basically ended up with numbers (and rules) that suited us.

Oh, not for me! Downtime is when I get to have my PCs interact with the setting on their terms: making contacts, building structures, exerting some of that influence gained through adventuring, buying and selling items, researching spells (if of the right class), living high off the hog, etc., etc.

We have a few cases like that, but they are mostly dealt offline by mail or phone, because one of the main problems of downtime is that the adventurers are often separated, which means that you might wait a long while to get your turn to play. So, during the actual session, downtime is kept to a bare minimum.
 


This depends entirely on the DM along with a) what particular modules/adventures she runs and b) how common she sees adventurers as being in the setting, other than the PCs.

If she runs nothing but WotC 5e adventure books then yes, the PCs aren't going to have much magic even at mid levels.

But if she converts and runs a string of 1e or 3e/d20 modules, in comparison with those above by mid levels he PCs will have loads of magic.

And if adventurers are fairly common in the setting then as each of them slowly accrete magic items there'll doubtless be some that aren't of much use, and thus available for sale or trade, while if the PCs are pretty much the only adventurers this won't be the case.
I completely agree with everything. Just trying to offer a different point of view from some tables. I mean, I remember 2e and carrying around sacks of magic items and using them like McGyver. That was fun. But so is only having one per player. It can help define the player.
 

On the assumption that Fabrigee eggs can't be made any more, there's one significant difference between any of these examples and magic items in a game setting: in a typical game setting magic items are still being made.

There's always a trickle (or flow?) of new supply in magic items; unlike fossils, of which even though they haven't all been found yet there is a hard cap on the potential supply; or Fabrigee eggs where that hard cap on supply is an already-known amount. And that trickle affects the rarity: something that cannot be made any more is by default rarer than something that can, all other things being equal.
This is an interesting thought... what if you had a world where magic lost its potency over time. Kind of like radioactive carbon, maybe even faster. Then, to top it off, the wizards that could imbue them are getting rarer and rarer. Talk about supply/demand costs. ;)
 


But is the PC Elric of Melnibone or That Guy Who Wields Stormbringer?
I stated: "It can help define the player." Meaning, Elric is Elric, but Stormbringer helped define him. It wasn't his only mode of characterization, but it was one facet of it.
At a table where someone has a magic item, particularly a magic item that grows with the character, it can be part of their characterization. Just like the Ring helped define Frodo's strength. In one campaign we played, my friend had three different magic items, all of them dealing with undead. It helped define him as some type of undead slayer.
 


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