D&D General The Art and the Artist: Discussing Problematic Issues in D&D

[CleverNickName]

Sorry, no... If you start to cater to each and every little group we are reduced to on-disclosed humi oid and non-gluten, soy-free, low-carb, vegan casserole....

It sounds like you're trying to equate a consumer's dietary preferences with racism and misogyny. Was that on purpose?

 

[Bill Zebub]

There was a phrase we used in the military.. Suck it up and drive on. It doesn't mean give-up, neither does it mean don't fight the fight where someone is obviously making a 'trolling', 'inflammatory' or 'charged' statement. (ie making a group of religious crusaders that wear white robes and hoods and set religious iconography on fire as a positive hero group named the Kul Klock Klangs in your new campaign setting is probably NOT very smart, or subtle). What it does mean is that you must take responsibility for your own misery and either get past it or suffer. And if 99% of the people in the world say the sky is blue and you being colorblind say you are offfended because its obviously grey... Suck it up Buttercup, because while I feel sorry for your condition, I'm not going to start calling the sky non-discriminatory shade.

This is excellent advice for all the whiners and criers kicking up a fuss about orcs gaining some nuance.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Not gonna lie, sometimes it's nice when they're just overt about it instead of beating around the bush and pretending to be civil.

 

[Bill Zebub]

Maybe we could simplify this debate by asking what real harm, not hypothetical, and preferably with data, is being caused by these terrible changes to the game.

I’m clearing space on my hard drive now, eagerly awaiting the first data sets.

 

[Thunderfoot]

It sounds like you're trying to equate a consumer's dietary preferences with racism and misogyny. Was that on purpose?

No, but Orc and Pie is offensive according to your defintions. Hence my overt and sarcastic response. It sounds like you are trying to troll my response, was that on purpose?

 

[Bill Zebub]

No, but Orc and Pie is offensive according to your defintions.

Citation needed.

 

[Thunderfoot]

Citation needed.

Orc is a racial term... that's offensive. Pie is a gluten backed good that is dangerous to diabetics, gluten allergic and vegans (eggs and milk). According to the idea that ALL dangerous things are bad, pie is bad.

It's a hyperbolic extrapolation. (Yes I can go over the top too. )

 

[Bill Zebub]

Orc is a racial term... that's offensive. Pie is a gluten backed good that is dangerous to diabetics, gluten allergic and vegans (eggs and milk). According to the idea that ALL dangerous things are bad, pie is bad.

It's a hyperbolic extrapolation. (Yes I can go over the top too. )

And why is that a productive contribution to this discussion?

 

[MGibster]

Would you still have that level of concern about a product that reinforces harmful racial stereotypes or misogyny? Would you be just as comfortable with having those elements in your game?

Who would say yes? Of course I wouldn't want something in my game I believed reinforces harmful racial stereotypes of misogyny. But then just because I think something reinforces harmful racial stereotypes doesn't mean you'll agree and vice versa. I think that's where the crux of the problem is in these discussions.

 

[Thunderfoot]

Orc is a racial term... that's offensive. Pie is a gluten backed good that is dangerous to diabetics, gluten allergic and vegans (eggs and milk). According to the idea that ALL dangerous things are bad, pie is bad.

It's a hyperbolic extrapolation.

And why is that a productive contribution to this discussion?

It was an example.. by itself its not. In context it most assuredly is. Sometimes looking in the mirror of righteous hate gives us the opportunity to see when we have left the track of helpful and have started tilting at windmills. Proving racism and sexism is bad is a noble task. Further proving that pink is an offensive color to a group of people is jumping the rails. Believe it or not, I agree that the changes that have taken place are positive, but make no mistake, when you start a campaign of scorched earth, the damage WILL cause unintended non-affiliated damage.

A peaceful protest is great, when someone throws a brick and a riot ensues, it's an illegal assembly, and regardless of the initial positive gathering, it's now a civilly disruptive mob and a group of law breaking criminals. When socially aware and positive change seeking individuals lose sight of the objective (changing obviously offensive material) and start nit-picking details that mean little to the original objective, your movement loses the credibility it needs (and deserves).

There is an old phrase 'Pick your battles' it still applies but in the modern arena of social awareness maybe a better phrase would be 'Pick your meaningful battles.' As I've said here and elsewhere I don't have all the answers, but I do have some cutting questions to keep others honest. I hope we all remember the end goal... to make our hobby a better hobby.