D&D 5E D&D Races: Evolution, Fantasy Stereotypes & Escapism

[Bluebell]

If the concepts remain and that's fine, and its just the word used that was a problem, doesn't that then mean that the word used is arbitrary/unimportant? But if the words being used are arbitrary and unimportant as long as the content is being expressed then why are people so focused on the specific word instead of the content behind it?

Does this boil down to people getting upset over window dressing?

The word "savage" has extremely racist connotations. That is not window dressing, it is a very clear connotation of the word.

That is my intention - I am in fact claiming that their concerns are trivial. Not because of who "they" are but because people's concerns are, in general, trivial unless they are accompanied by some action.

So why does it matter to you at all? If it doesn't affect you, if it seems trivial to you, then why do you care if some words are changed? It seems like you're simultaneously complaining that it's meaningless and that it's censorship. Either words have meanings that matter, and therefore we need to be thoughtful about which words we use, or they don't, and freely swapping them out doesn't make any difference.

 

[Faolyn]

The common conversation goes that in the dark days of the past, people played D&D like "Those orcs are all murderers and thieves! Let's kill them all and take their stuff!" And that was a horrible thing and we have to rewrite the game so that orcs are no longer evil raiders that want to steal pretty young white women.

Nobody says that you can't have orcs that are evil raiders.

 

[Irlo]

That's sort of a pedantic response to what he's saying. He isn't claiming some super organization is formally banning words, he's saying that the cultural zeitgeist is figuratively "banning" words. Also, as they are editorial changes, that makes us ask WHY they were changed... the answer to which would exactly back up Lyxen's assertion.

In fact, actually, this very forum explicitly lists terms/words that people are not allowed to use.

Okay. There are social influences that are encouraging some game publishers to reconsider their use of some words in particular contexts.

These influences might feel new because voices are being heard that weren’t heard before.

 

[Filthy Lucre]

The word "savage" has extremely racist connotations. That is not window dressing, it is a very clear connotation of the word.

True, it does, but what I meant is that you could substitute it out for a different term and it would just be a wink and a nudge, "you know what we mean" sort of thing.

So why does it matter to you at all? If it doesn't affect you, if it seems trivial to you, then why do you care if some words are changed? It seems like you're simultaneously complaining that it's meaningless and that it's censorship. Either words have meanings that matter, and therefore we need to be thoughtful about which words we use, or they don't, and freely swapping them out doesn't make any difference.

I never said it was censorship. I am 100% in the camp of "play the game you want to play the way you want to play it". If I'm running a module, and I want to describe some tribe as being savage... I just will.

There's the issue of whether or not some sort of 'censorship' is happening and then there is the more important question of whether or not that even matters. I say "yes" and "no", respectively.

 

[Irlo]

The dictionary definitions have not changed as far as I can see, for one, and this is an international forum not even US based. So why, even if the connotation (and I would certainly debate that it's the "primary" connotation that changes) in the US, would we have to abide by it ?

You don’t have to. No one has to.

 

[Lyxen]

The word "savage" has extremely racist connotations. That is not window dressing, it is a very clear connotation of the word.

Except that there, it was a savage LAND.

So why does it matter to you at all? If it doesn't affect you

But it does. Perfectly normal words are being banned, and people correct you and assume that you are a bad person if you use them. It does affect me, and it should not. It's at the very least nationalist to think it's not, and isn't that a bad word too ?

 

[Filthy Lucre]

...and people correct you and assume that you are a bad person if you use them...

Some advice from a life long pariah: If you're secure enough/powerful enough socially or economically it doesn't matter what people think about you. Endeavor to reach that point and then these concerns are all moot. Besides, what does it matter if someone THINKS you're a bad person, but you know that you are not?

Letting other people define you is always foolishness.

 

[ART!]

"generalisation" does not mean anything, it's as general a word as can be.

I don't now what to tell you; dictionaries and (given the context of this discussion) sociologists disagree with you. Which is fine - you can dislike the term and for your personal uses disregard it, but in a conversation such as this people are going to point out the more accepted (by the general population and by specialists) uses of those terms.

I want to be able to describe groups of people for my campaign, obviously in non-offensive way and with no relation to real world groups of people. What is going to happen now ? Will the word "stereotype" become a banned word on this site ?

Just...describe groups of people for your campaign in non-offensive ways and with no relation to real world groups of people, I guess? If some people in your setting hold stereotypes about others (which would unfortunately be quite natural, if you want naturalism), then you could make note of those stereotypes and how people (the stereotype-ers, the stereotype-ees, and outside observers) feel about them.

 

[Lyxen]

It is not censorship for an editorial team to determine that some words no longer convey the meaning that they intended.

It when it is forced by social pressure, which is what happened there.

If I use a word to insult you over and over again and you ask me to stop, and I choose to stop using that word, you are not censoring me.

And if I use a perfectly good word now and then, and I get harassed on social media until I remove it, what is it?

 

[Filthy Lucre]

Just...describe groups of people for your campaign in non-offensive ways and with no relation to real world groups of people, I guess?

Or... better yet just do whatever you want in your home game? If it doesn't offend your actual players, (and maybe even if it does), it doesn't matter whether or not it would be broadly construed to be offensive.