D&D 5E D&D Races: Evolution, Fantasy Stereotypes & Escapism

[Filthy Lucre]

Not, it undermines their credibility as being country-agnostic.

Well, I would imagine that WotC sells more books to NA consumers than any other country so it would make sense for them to conform to that cultural zeitgeist's expectations on word usage.

 

[Bluebell]

No, they REMOVED some words. This is simply censure.

It is not censorship for an editorial team to determine that some words no longer convey the meaning that they intended.

If I use a word to insult you over and over again and you ask me to stop, and I choose to stop using that word, you are not censoring me.

 

[payn]

If the concepts remain and that's fine, and its just the word used that was a problem, doesn't that then mean that the word used is arbitrary/unimportant? But if the words being used are arbitrary and unimportant as long as the content is being expressed then why are people so focused on the specific word instead of the content behind it?

Does this boil down to people getting upset over window dressing?

I think that trivializes folks concerns. Two words can describe a concept, but one of them may have been derived or given to actual people, and thus have problematic historical baggage. Being mindful is diplomatic and something I see value in even if it appears just to appease people of their concerns.

 

[Filthy Lucre]

I think that trivializes folks concerns.

That is my intention - I am in fact claiming that their concerns are trivial. Not because of who "they" are but because people's concerns are, in general, trivial unless they are accompanied by some action.

Being mindful is diplomatic and something I see value in even if it appears just to appease people of their concerns.

I see value in it too... in so far as it advances my goals.

 

[Lyxen]

Even apart from the greater good of society, "stereotypes" are just disrespectful. Again, the word--in the context of people, that is--specifically means "a set of inaccurate, simplistic generalizations about a group that allows others to categorize them and treat them accordingly."

No. The proper definition is "something conforming to a fixed or general pattern".

Inaccurate, simplistic generalizations, specifically used to determine how one should treat people

Uh, no: "Social psychology defines a stereotype as a generalized belief about a particular category of people. It is an expectation that people might have about every person of a particular group.[citation needed] The type of expectation can vary; it can be, for example, an expectation about the group's personality, preferences, appearance or ability."

It does not dictate anything as to how you should treat them.

Can you please stop trying to enforce YOUR vague definition of the word to prove that it's bad ?

 

[Ruin Explorer]

If there was fantasy fiction that wasn't escapist enough, it didn't sell as well.

[Citation massively needed.]

The best-selling fantasy fiction and the most escapist fantasy fiction don't correlate particularly well, certainly by normal definitions of escapist - i.e. distant from any realities of our world and/or history. A Song of Ice and Fire is rather less escapist than most fantasy literature, I'd argue, given that the people in it behave in deeply human ways, really the worst human ways a lot of the time, there's no "fun magic systems" and little "deep lore" to get lost in (in the original books), there no nonhuman races to Ohhh and Ahhh over (well, hardly), and even the great apocalypse of the setting an apocalypse that is common in basically real-world settings (zombie apocalypse). There's politics, there's racism, there's misogyny, there's homophobia, and so on.

That's not to say it's not escapist at all. Obviously it is.

But compared to a lot of fantasy? It's very low on the "escapism", and you're clearly agreeing that there is a degree to escapism, because you talk about "escapist enough". If we graded fantasy from 1-10 on "escapism", I wouldn't rate A Song of Ice and Fire about a 4/10, relative to other fantasy.

Some best-selling fantasy is extremely escapist. The Stormlight Archive series from Brandon Sanderson is drastically more escapist than, say, his Mistborn series, and it's basically a giant ultra-long-form adventure-story full of elaborate magic systems, overcomplicated lore which involves entirely separate books not even set in the same "universe", frequent flashy superheroesque fights, and so on. It does touch on some less escapist themes, but even then buries them under layers of difference, and/or get a bit weird about them (kind of excessively apologist re: slavery, for example).

Before anyone points out that you can get lost in any book, I agree, but what the claim was here is that degree of inherent escapism is linked to the success of fantasy. And I can go on about this at some length, but I think it's relatively easy to see that that's not in fact the case, that in fact there's no correlation at all between how escapist a work is and how successful it is.

 

[DarkMantle]

Before anyone points out that you can get lost in any book, I agree, but what the claim was here is that degree of inherent escapism is linked to the success of fantasy. And I can go on about this at some length, but I think it's relatively easy to see that that's not in fact the case, that in fact there's no correlation at all between how escapist a work is and how successful it is.

I guess? I don't have a strong opinion on this, but I'm not sure if I agree or not with the case behind that.

 

[Filthy Lucre]

No. The proper definition is "something conforming to a fixed or general pattern".



Uh, no: "Social psychology defines a stereotype as a generalized belief about a particular category of people. It is an expectation that people might have about every person of a particular group.[citation needed] The type of expectation can vary; it can be, for example, an expectation about the group's personality, preferences, appearance or ability."

It does not dictate anything as to how you should treat them.

Can you please stop trying to enforce YOUR vague definition of the word to prove that it's bad ?

What he probably meant to/should have said is that the word 'stereotype' has a connotation of referring to exclusively negative traits to the lay person.

 

[Faolyn]

Would you apply the same logic with actors who play bad people? Is it "unhealthy" to play a character that does bad things?

Butting in, there is a difference between "playing a role for a job" and "playing a role for fun."

 

[Filthy Lucre]

Butting in, there is a difference between "playing a role for a job" and "playing a role for fun."

Is it worse/better to get paid to pretend to be a murderer or to do it for free?