D&D General Chris just said why I hate wizard/fighter dynamic

[Filthy Lucre]

There's all pretty awesome.

Except Qi, which is questionable for reasons besides letting martials be interesting.

We should call them oriental mysticism points.

 

[Mort]

all the daily powers either had an effect or miss 1/2 damage. however that was based on a feat for paragon that let you add an off stat to damage on ALL misses.

No there was an at will attack power that allowed you to still do STR damage on a miss.

Reaping Strike, I believe.

 

[Vaalingrade]

SteEl-like skin for Achilles was magic though, right? And Luke is great, but he's no Thor. Or 616 Hercules.

The mundane martial would be more like Odysseus, right.

Luke lacks the chump weakness due to maternal negligence of Achilles.

 

[Cadence]

There's all pretty awesome.

I've wondered about, but never pursued, having different kinds of inner strength pools, each keyed on a different ability.

 

[Mannahnin]

Superheroes are just modern interpretations of mythic level heroes like Hercules. Is Achilles really that much different from Luke Cage?

Well, sort of. I perceive part of the objection to superhuman feats and abilities for Fighters being a genre conflict issue.

We have superhero fiction and movies and games, and we have fantasy fiction and movies and games, and while there's certainly some thematic and conceptual overlap, most of the time gamers view mixing the two as more like mixing milk and whiskey, and less like peanut butter and chocolate.

I think when we see through the right lens, we can justify things to ourselves within the fiction. As with the example of Sneak Attack I've mentioned a couple of times now. 5E's take is more fun, and reasonable to conceptualize, even if 3E's take was more "realistic".

I find that if I envision my high level Fighter as being like Sir Kay, or Achilles, or Druss the Legend, I can accept and be happy with more-than-human abilities in way that I can't if I keep comparing them to an MCU movie. It's in part about genre emulation, and in part about a voluntary choice to go with the fiction and the game rather than to fight against it.

 

[Micah Sweet]

nothing... they all are pretty much the same. I see all 4 as martial non magic heroes. I can understand people saying Cap has a supernatural boost, but that's it.

yes

Of course, you'll notice that scenarios have to specifically be conceived in those stories that allow those characters to contribute on the same level as Iron Man, Thor, and the Hulk. Magic just can do things that not-magic can't. Forcing the issue runs the risk of making it a different game.

 

[HammerMan]

If every fighter could suddenly jump 3 times as far without magic I would definitely notice. It's not a small change.

really? if at level 6 your fighter (18 str) could jump could running jump 7 feet and at level 7 they took an option to jump 21 feet that would be noticeable at level 7 when wizards can dimension door 500ft?

for the record real people in the real world have jumped 29.xxx almost 30 feet. so this isn't even super human

 

[Scribe]

I still feel like this shouldnt be insurmountable to solve (Caster vs Martial), but it requires a different system than 5e.

 

[HammerMan]

There are already fighter archetypes that use magic if you want. Whether they're powerful enough is a matter of opinion. If you want to play a more magic-heavy fighter there are already several class options.

I don't want magic. I want non magic options

 

[Remathilis]

SteEl-like skin for Achilles was magic though, right? And Luke is great, but he's no Thor. Or 616 Hercules.

The mundane martial would be more like Odysseus, right.

That's part of the problem: Hercules is half-God. Archilies has magic skin. Steve Rodgers has a magic serum, Peter Parker has magical spider powers. None of them are mundane people. The closest you get is someone like Hawkeye or Black Widow, who just feel like high level character and are still outclassed by Thor or Scarlett Witch.

But that's the problem: any sufficiently amazing high level martial ability is indistinguishable from low level magic. Even if your rogue can never fail a lockpick or stealth so good she's invisible, congratulations, you're as good as a third level wizard.