D&D General Chris just said why I hate wizard/fighter dynamic

[Scribe]

Why are the clerics that go out with all that armor and spells full casters? Why aren't there some even better casters back in the temples who have passed on the combat stuff.

So, getting back to the thread...

How do the fighters feel if the Wizards and Clerics going out with them are half-casters half-combat?

This is the thing, I think with the 'everyone is good at combat' Wizards (of the Coast) lost the plot. The Classes in 5e are just messed up!

But I think its all preference at this point, so I'll just see myself out.

 

[TwoSix]

Out of curiosity, if you (anyone) looks at the spell lists, what is the most powerful spell you could envision as being an ability for a martial which you could somehow justify as "non-magical"?

At a quick glance, I was thinking Dominate Person at 5th level. I could see a tier 3 or 4 martial with an Intimidate so overpowering that the target on a failed contested roll (instead of a saving throw) would basically do whatever, like the spell, for up to 1 minute.

So, what would you pick as your "limit"?

Foresight. That's super easy to skin as a high-level martial ability.

 

[Mort]

Being better at persuasion is not even supernatural. Rogues do it all the time. I don't see how that has to do with what we're discussing.

We are discussing methods for martials to get benefits outside of magic, and if it's desirable. that IS the whole discussion.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Being better at persuasion is not even supernatural. Rogues do it all the time. I don't see how that has to do with what we're discussing.

Someone up thread thinks that scaring people who just watched you cave in their buddy's face with your fist is 'mind control'.

 

[Micah Sweet]

what makes magic a better explanation then "I trained real good and just can do it?" if the boots don't bother you why does having it from just training?

and opps I googled D&D jump and must have gotten high jump not long)

edit: and again 20ft is well below human current max of 30ft

Because magic let's you do things that are impossible without it (or technology i suppose). That doesn’t seem hard to understand, but it does seem hard to accept for some.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Foresight. That's super easy to skin as a high-level martial ability.

LOL good one!

Oh, wait, were you being serious???

 

[Micah Sweet]

because if it is balanced, and can work with one explanation I don't understand why a different explanation hurts?

Because explanations matter in an RPG. You have to be able to buy the reason why things work the way they do.

 

[Cadence]

Someone up thread thinks that scaring people who just watched you cave in their buddy's face with your fist is 'mind control'.

The argument here is going to be that someone has a character conception of "hardened veteran who doesn't scare" (and someone else will have "hardened heart who doesn't succumb to succubi" and someone else will have "been scammed a lot and doesn't fall for phishing anymore" and...). And that there is no way they'd react the way you want outside of magic.

So how does it work if everyone has one "story based immunity to a specific type of non-magical influence".

Or will everyone who says that's playing their character momentarily and usurping control still say that?

 

[TwoSix]

what makes magic a better explanation then "I trained real good and just can do it?" if the boots don't bother you why does having it from just training?

and opps I googled D&D jump and must have gotten high jump not long)

edit: and again 20ft is well below human current max of 30ft

Honestly, it's fundamentally a question of what genre you're drawing from for your image of fantasy. There's plenty of fantasy in which your standard warrior types can gain preternatural strength, speed, toughness, etc. And there's other types of fantasy where any whiff of preternatural ability automatically means "MAGIC" with all the extraneous accoutrements attached.

 

[Micah Sweet]

So pure niche protection?

Why shouldn't fighters have a few options outside of combat? Is that the entirety of the fighter's identity and that's it?

Because IF that's true - no work is needed. Fighters perform "in combat" just fine, quite well even.

Have a look at the Level Up fighter. A much more interesting iteration of the class, imo.