D&D General Chris just said why I hate wizard/fighter dynamic

[Lanefan]

Cool! Sounds like a great conceit for the right setting.

It is.

There's quite a bit of Herc-Xena underlying my current setting - the pop-culture and wildly-inaccurate historical references, disparate cultures from different real-world time periods co-habiting the same game world, the general sense of whimsy, and so forth.

Mix in a dash of Tolkein and it ends up rockin' pretty good!

 

[Remathilis]

D&D adventurers should not be mundane people. Period, full stop. Black Widow and Hawkeye are about where a 5th level martial should be. Calling them high level is a joke. Thor is about where a fighter should be at 11th level.

Thor can control lightning, fly, and has super strength and endurance. He is most clearly NOT mundane, but if your suggestion to fixing fighters is to allow them to throw lightning bolt, then the answer is just to give everyone magic and be done.

 

[Horwath]

Ok, but you said add 10th level spells at 10th level? So are you thinking like @Yaarel that a 10th level caster casts 10th level spells? Or do you want 10th level spells at level 27th or so??

sorry, now I saw my typo. meant to say 10th level spells at 19th class level.

 

[Oofta]

Someone up thread thinks that scaring people who just watched you cave in their buddy's face with your fist is 'mind control'.

Should D&D have an optional morale system spelled out in the DMG? Probably. But why does it matter if the NPC just saw there buddy get their head caved in or if their buddy disintegrated before their eyes? I have enemies run away ... umm ... retreat all the time. Seems like being set on fire in many ways is more terrifying that dropping in combat because you were hit by a weapon.

 

[Lanefan]

Problem is there are SO MANY spells. IME if some spells have drawbacs and others don't? Casters just pick the ones that don't.

Want a true drawback - it has to be universal. Such as strain as I suggested earlier (every time a caster casts a spell they have to make a DC 11+spell level CON check failure equals half the spells level in exhaustion) then casters will tread carefully!

In combat I find the high-risk high-reward interruption piece works reasonably well for keeping them vaguely balanced (whoever invented the idea of "combat casting" can go jump in the lake). Out of combat I should probably cull the spell lists some in order to better protect the niches of other classes - by using Knock as your example you hit a prime offender here - but otherwise I'm not too concerned beyond a few specific spells that I'll deal with piecemeal.

 

[Oofta]

Of course. Preternatural awareness and insight that's almost like precognition is a trope I've seen multiple times for high-level warriors.

Yeah. If only there were an option for a fighter to always be Alert to danger and could never be surprised. If only.

 

[Oofta]

Look, its clear from this thread some people want their fighter to be a chump. They are fine with mediocrity and sidekick status. They shouldnt get to hamper the design of a mythic martial designed to be on par with casters because the class wouldnt be for them!

Or ... it's clear that some people want fighters to have supernatural abilities and take away the handful of builds that don't require magic to contribute to the game. You get a supernatural PC! And You get a supernatural PC!

 

[Oofta]

Those are the 5e rules. How the heck do you get to 60 feet without a very, VERY, VERY generous DM with the athletics check to go farther?

This was in response to a poster who thought it would be a good idea to give fighters the innate ability to make a long jump as if they had the Jump spell cast on them.

 

[Mort]

Yeah. If only there were an option for a fighter to always be Alert to danger and could never be surprised. If only.

But that option is available to all classes (You mean the Alert feat, yes?) so doesn't really stand out.

 

[Remathilis]

Someone up thread thinks that scaring people who just watched you cave in their buddy's face with your fist is 'mind control'.

DM: Ok, Warduke swings his mighty mace and crits Knuckles the Thief. Roll me a Wisdom Save.

Player: Ok. Uh, I rolled a 12?

DM: Not good enough. You saw your friend drop, so you drop your weapon and run your full movement away from him...

Player 1: Waitaminute! I'm a 7th level fighter! I've killed dozens of creatures, some of them I've critted. I'm a tough-as-nails warrior, I'm a veteran of the King's War according to my background, and my flaw is I never back down from a fight! How does it make sense I would lose my nerve and run like a green recruit just because I saw someone critted?

DM: Sorry, Warduke has the Frightening Crit ability. You failed your save, lost nerve, and are frightened and must run for 1 minute. However, you can attempt to make a save each round...

Player 2: (laughing): Brave Sir Robin ran away. Bravely ran away away..,