D&D General Chris just said why I hate wizard/fighter dynamic

[Oofta]

I mean, the current fighter IS a chump. The fighter apologists can keep it. Any new mythic warrior class needs about twice the power budget to be where it needs to be IMO. Just because guys like Oofta have been on a self-imposed fast for five + editions doesn't mean the rest of us need to suffer any longer.

If you want to play a superhero game there are options out there for it. I don't want to play a superhero game.

 

[Oofta]

You're just keeping the rest of us down, then.

Yeah, I'm secretly in charge of the D&D rules. I am the man.

 

[Scribe]

Yeah, I'm secretly in charge of the D&D rules. I am the man.

I expect my pony, and negative ability modifiers, in the next edition...thanks in advance!

 

[Oofta]

I expect my pony, and negative ability modifiers, in the next edition...thanks in advance!

The man listens to no one.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

Again, how are we doing this?

If a fighter uses an ability that gives every other target but him disadvantage on attack rolls, I still get a choice; does this character attack the fighter with his normal attack odds OR go attack a more preferred target (like the squishy wizard) with a reduced chance of success and thus waste his action? Does the smooth-tongued rogue seduce the pious priestess into bed with a simple persuasion check? Would the wizard forsake all his magical range attacks to rush up and attack the heavily armed warrior with his quarterstaff because the warrior said nasty things about his momma? At least with magic, I can justify someone overriding my character's common sense, morality, ideals and personality traits in the same way people do when drugged or similar.

And to be fair, I don't really like charm magic either, for much the same reason. I don't like having control of my PCs or important NPCs taken from me. I accept it only slightly better because magic can do things that mundane things can't and override my character's actions is one. I'd rather not exacerbate by giving everyone the power to move other people's characters around.

Ideally the two parties (DM and player) collaborate and come up with the how and why. In the case of the wizard, the fighter might effortlessly block the wizard's attacks as the infuriated mage closes in, hurling bolt after bolt only to realize they're now in threat range. Think how often in movies or shows a character approaches a target shooting only to have a sudden reversal. This simulates that fiction, rather than characters always doing the tactically smart thing.

It's also a good reminder why social "combat" shouldn't rely on a single die roll, as it basically turns it into the social equivalent of save or die.

 

[Cadence]

Yeah. If only there were an option for a fighter to always be Alert to danger and could never be surprised. If only.

Be bit by an... enchanted... spider?

 

[CleverNickName]

Which is why a lot can be done to correct the imbalance. The real issue is the direction you want to go:

You either decrease the power of casters to bring them down to the martial level, or elevate the martials to bring them up to the casters. Or, try to find a happy medium between the two extremes...

Personally, I am for bringing casters down, many others want to elevate martials.

This idea of "imbalance" assumes that more powerful characters are also the more desirable. That might be a faulty assumption depending on the attitude of the player and the overall vibe of the group. There is no guarantee that a powerful character is also going to be fun.

If your character's concept and identity is completely dependent on combat performance alone, you are going to spend a lot of time fidgeting with your phone and sighing heavily with boredom at my table. We typically only have 1 or 2 combat scenes per game.

(Sorry, late to the thread...still not caught up)

 

[MichaelSomething]

If you want to play a superhero game there are options out there for it. I don't want to play a superhero game.

Can high level D&D not be a super hero game?

 

[Mort]

DM: Ok, Warduke swings his mighty mace and crits Knuckles the Thief. Roll me a Wisdom Save.

Player: Ok. Uh, I rolled a 12?

DM: Not good enough. You saw your friend drop, so you drop your weapon and run your full movement away from him...

Player 1: Waitaminute! I'm a 7th level fighter! I've killed dozens of creatures, some of them I've critted. I'm a tough-as-nails warrior, I'm a veteran of the King's War according to my background, and my flaw is I never back down from a fight! How does it make sense I would lose my nerve and run like a green recruit just because I saw someone critted?

DM: Sorry, Warduke has the Frightening Crit ability. You failed your save, lost nerve, and are frightened and must run for 1 minute. However, you can attempt to make a save each round...

Player 2: (laughing): Brave Sir Robin ran away. Bravely ran away away..,

And if you the player had REALLY wanted a fighter who's seen it all and is unaffected by the horrors of war, maybe he'd would have taken the resilient wisdom feat (walked the walk not just talked the talk with a penned in background)? At that level would have turned the 12 into a 15 and you'd have likely saved!

But to get to your main point- maybe Warduke does something TRULLY horiffic on a crit, way outside even the normal bounds of war, so it justifies that kind of ability. And why not, at least it's interesting!

 

[Oofta]

Be bit by an... enchanted... spider?

Sounds about right. Oh, and the enchanted spider also gives you the formula for unobtanium a web formula you could sell for millions but you're constantly broke.