D&D 5E cloak of displacement and blindsight

[guachi]

If it were pitch dark, would the cloak of displacement have any noticeable effect? I don't just mean mechanically. I mean, if it were pitch black, would you be aware someone was wearing a cloak of displacement?

I think the answer is 'no' so I believe blindsight would negate a cloak of displacement. E.g., if the illusion isn't physically real, I don't believe a bat's echolocation would be affected in the slightest.

 

[guachi]

[Deleted]

This was an illusory double post!

 

[jaelis]

If it were pitch dark, would the cloak of displacement have any noticeable effect? I don't just mean mechanically. I mean, if it were pitch black, would you be aware someone was wearing a cloak of displacement?

I think the answer is 'no' so I believe blindsight would negate a cloak of displacement. E.g., if the illusion isn't physically real, I don't believe a bat's echolocation would be affected in the slightest.

While you should rule as you like, I don't know if I follow your reasoning here. You or I not being able to tell someone was wearing the cloak in the dark doesn't mean anything, because we don't have blindsight. If the cloak's illusion could fool a bat, there's no way we would know.

 

[guachi]

If someone can't tell if a cloak of displacement is being worn if you have your eyes closed then the cloak only affects sight. If it only affects sight then blindsight ignores a cloak of displacement (and so would closing your eyes). Only at that point if you had your eyes closed you'd be right back to attacking at disadvantage.

It's the same as if you attacked someone who had cast mirror image while wearing a blindfold. You don't have to determine if you hit an image. The one major difference is the spell mirror image actually says under what conditions you aren't affected by it.

 

[jaelis]

If someone can't tell if a cloak of displacement is being worn if you have your eyes closed then the cloak only affects sight. If it only affects sight then blindsight ignores a cloak of displacement (and so would closing your eyes). Only at that point if you had your eyes closed you'd be right back to attacking at disadvantage.

When my eyes are closed I can't tell if you are blowing a dog whistle. Does that mean a dog whistle only affects sight?

 

[Greg_]

"...projects an illusion that makes you appear to be standing in a place near your actual location, causing any creature to have disadvantage on attack rolls against you..."

Your answer is implied by the the language of the description, the key point being the 'cause and effect' that it describes. The item description says that the disadvantage is CAUSED by the illusion. So, if the illusion does not work, neither does the effect caused by the illusion. If "A ==> B", and their is no A, then there need be no B.

There are numerous reasons why the illusion might not function as expected, two possible cases of which are:

A) Perhaps the process is taking place in an antimagic field that prevents illusions from bring projected - in that case, no illusion causes no effect of the illusion.

B) Perhaps an attacker has a sense (blindsight, truesight, tremorsense, etc) that allows them the effects of 'seeing' the target w/o relying on visual sight. Again, then the illusion does not function for them, and since it is the illusion that causes the disadvantage, no disadvantage.

I read in an earlier post that someone was speculating perhaps the illusion functioned by directly affecting the mind of the viewer. Were that the case here, there would be a saving throw (Wis, probably), and possibly charm immunity would foil it. Since nothing like that happens, the effect must be external to the mind of the viewer, and hence is a mere visual projection.

 

[DND_Reborn]

LOL I thought this thread was displaced, but the necro powers strike again!

 

[ECMO3]

In a recent session a fighter wearing a cloak of displacement which: " projects an illusion that makes you appear to be standing in a place near your actual location, causing any creature to have disadvantage on attack rolls against you".

If this is the real exact wording and there is no more then RAW any creature has disadvantage, even those with truesight and the ability to see through illusions.

I don't think that is RAI but use of the phrase "any creature" means RAW in terms of specific vs general that all creatures have disadvantage/

Something like a sword of dancing might not have disadvantage because it is not a creature, but Zariel, who can see through illusions, would be.

 

[Lyxen]

If this is the real exact wording and there is no more then RAW any creature has disadvantage, even those with truesight and the ability to see through illusions.

I don't think that is RAI but use of the phrase "any creature" means RAW in terms of specific vs general that all creatures have disadvantage/

Something like a sword of dancing might not have disadvantage because it is not a creature, but Zariel, who can see through illusions, would be.

No, because specific beats general, the more general rule of any creature would be trumped by the specific power of Zariel to see through illusions such as the one projected by the cloak.

 

[Li Shenron]

For the first time I realised that Cloak of Displacement doesn't say if your REAL image becomes invisible... I think the RAI of "displacement" is definitely that you are in one place but everyone sees you a bit far away, but someone might claim you see double.

Anyway for the question at hand, I would check if the opponent with blindsight also has normal sight. I think normally blindsight is given to creatures without eyes, in which case I think they will just know your true location and would not see the illusion at all. If they do also have normal vision (maybe someone who is getting blindsight from a spell or item) then it might be interesting to consider letting them see BOTH and be puzzled for a bit not knowing which one is right, but then there are spells like Blur and Mirror Image which reveal that probably the RAI around blindsight is to beat this sort of effects.